Quote:
Originally Posted by Sety
He already included starters and its true.
Fire type choice is horrendously bad past few gens, if you don't choose the fire starter your choices always end up legendary (Moltres/Entei/Heatran), ungodly awful (Magcargo/Torkoal/Camerupt), useless without breeding (Ninetales/Arcanine/Flareon) or plain uncatchable till post game and/or trading (Houndoom/Magmortar)
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Magcargo can't be saved, yes (except to be used to hatch eggs), but Torkoal and Camerupt can be quite useful. Camerupt has Hard Rock (not like it matters against water though) and Torkoal can do very good as a wall, with Amnesia for his Sp.Def and Lava Plume to lower the opponent's Atk. with burn. Plus, both learn Explosion.
Arcanine doesn't really need breeding to be useful either, though you might need to use TMs. The only time you would need a move bred on him is if you plan on making a Morning Sun-Will o Wisp moveset or something.