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Old 2011-08-07, 09:37   Link #166
Join Date: Oct 2006
Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Whoa, careful dude. Word of the wise, if you say anything even remotely offensive in this forum they'll ban you like there's no tomorrow.

...Oh wait, that only applies to people who have the minority opinion. Nevermind.
Clearly not the case since the vast majority of the posts you've made in the last 6 months have been flame baiting the Naruto forums, yet the mods haven't done anything about you. But I digress.

Yeah, or maybe he should be immediately attacking Nagato instead of just standing around and expositing for 5 minutes. Actually, anything except doing that.
Already covered by others, but to summarize: Is your memory of the chapter that bad?

Shisui is supposed to be the best genjutsu user in the entire series and he's only been briefly mentioned 2 or 3 times, and has had a maximum of 5 panels of screen time. He's the most transparent plot device ever. Actually, he's not a plot device, he's a plot fairy.
He has one very powerful genjutsu. I'd say Itachi is still the better genjutsu user overall, given his ability to control time within genjutsu, cast illusions by pointing at people with his finger, and supposedly genjutsu people from miles away. The only things special about Shisui's genjutsu are that from the victim's perspective it's very natural, and sensor ninjas can't tell the victim is being controlled just by looking at him (Ao could only tell Mifune was being controlled at the summit by examining Danzou's chakra). It's kind of like Lelouch's Geass, but without having a seemingly random chance of making the victim act like a mindless zombie. All this said, I don't think Danzou was using exactly the same jutsu, since it seems the Mangekyou version doesn't have to be maintained in any way and can just be treated as "set it and forget it." That's what makes it particularly dangerous in my opinion, since it allows for sending someone back to their village as a sleeper agent.

Did Kakashi explain that each person's Mangekyo has a unique power at the time? Honestly, I have only the vaguest memory of him even using that technique. Have any other Mangekyo users shown unique powers? What are Itachi's and Sasuke's unique powers?
Each Mangekyou user has been shown to have one super power per eye, plus Susano'o if they've mastered the Mangekyou in both eyes. If you're seriously upset that Kishi has shown rather than told this, you need to reevaluate what you think makes effective writing.


Tsukiyomi (the super illusion with time manipulation, in case you're going to ask me what this is due to only having the vaguest memory of him even using it; Kakashi has used Kamui more than we've seen Itachi use Tsukiyomi now, so I wouldn't put it past you)

Amaterasu (the black flames that do not extinguish until their target has been completely burned up or the user stops the jutsu)


Amaterasu (see above)

Enton (The ability to shape and manipulate the black flames. And yes, it was specifically mentioned that Sasuke controls this with one Mangekyou eye while using the other to actually cast Amaterasu. I actually have my own theory regarding why the natures of the abilities require different eyes, but that's something for an actual discussion.)


Kamui (Opens a wormhole-like vortex to suck in things and can then close it off. He used this against Deidara twice to miss him and then cut off his arm, Deidara's clone's self-explosion to not get killed, twice against Pain's attacks to save useless scrubs, once against Pain's flying nail to not get killed, and again against Sasuke's Susano'o arrows to not get killed)

He only has one Sharingan eye to have Mangekyou in, so he has no other special power as far as we know.

Right. So HOW does he do it?
The way you draw at straws is so cute. And by cute I mean pathetic. This isn't the first time someone has made a jutsu that reacts to specific circumstances. See: Naruto apparently having shades of both his parents sealed inside him. And let's not forget Fu from the Yamanaka clan, who made a puppet designed to cast a body transfer jutsu when attacked. But let's get into specifics to shut you up.

Nagato alluded to the mechanism with regards to Mangekyou recognition in this chapter if you care about such a thing (as you've pretended to for the sake of your trolling). Apparently the air around Itachi changes in a specific way when he's getting ready to use a Mangekyou jutsu, and Nagato even thought he was about to cast Amaterasu at one point because of this (Itachi did cast it as it turns out, just not at Naruto thanks to the crow). The funny thing is you can't even say this was only introduced now, because Zetsu made a similar remark way back when Itachi was fighting Sasuke. Is it chakra? Is it Sharingan reiatsu? I don't know, and it really doesn't matter. People sensitive to it can tell when Itachi is charging a Mangekyou jutsu (or at least Amaterasu), and that means he can rig the crow to react to that. As for when he put his Amaterasu in Sasuke's eye, Madara explained himself that it responded to the sight of Madara's Sharingan. Not that hard since Sasuke's eye is... you know... an eye.

Right. So WHY did Itachi think Sasuke might turn to the dark side?
Frenchie already posted the exact chapter page that covers this. It's literally right there on the page.

Oh yeah. Was that ever explained?
I just said it was a convenient coincidence for the plot.

Hahaha, no. This is what we call "the author writing himself into a corner." See, most authors will establish plot points and pieces of information in a gradual and well-paced manner using various literary devices. But what Kishi has done here is attempted to tie-up a loose end by creating an extremely arbitrary plot point at the last minute to make it appear that it somehow makes sense.
Do you balk like this every time a new piece of information is introduced in every story? We learned exactly one new thing this chapter that wasn't directly addressed or alluded to in previous chapters, and that was the length of the cool down on Shisui's eye. If we knew every detail of every story ahead of time, there would be no such thing as an interesting or unpredictable story, because we'd all know exactly how everything was going to unfold. If you really think stories aren't huge strings of plot conveniences thrown together to make the story unfold the way the writer wants, I seriously question whether you've written anything. Then again, given how flimsy your responses are becoming, you've demonstrated quite the ability to write yourself into a corner.

My point was that combining Hashirama's chakra with Shisui's technique was arbitrary and made no sense. See, this is another example of Kishi making a rushed and arbitrary wrap-up of a plot point at the last minute.
Danzou did this ages ago, and Madara himself mentioned back then that Hashirama's chakra was enhancing his ability to use his Sharingan. This is another example of you being annoyed that Kishi gave precedent for something but you being unable to figure out its implications. It's okay; it doesn't make you dumb. It's what decent authors can manage to pull off.

Also, the 10 year limit didn't even exist until this chapter. For all we knew, Shisui could've used the technique as often as Danzo could.
I'm also sure Obito would have been able to use his Sharingan without collapsing from exhaustion the way Kakashi does, and maybe even without a three Kamui uses per coma limit. It's been established since early Part 1 that a Sharingan has to be in an Uchiha body to be used to its full potential. And Kakashi reestablishes it every time he uses his. Are you going to be a grown-up about this, or are you going to feign not being able to remember Kakashi ever using his Sharingan like you supposedly can't remember him using Kamui? All that said, I'm not convinced Danzou's jutsu is this exact one, since he had to maintain his in proximity to the victim (not that it matters in this context). It's very likely the Mangekyou version is simply far more powerful, similar to how Itachi's Tsukiyomi is a more powerful version of his normal genjutsu by virtue of adding manipulation of time perception.

Kishi portrayed Itachi's actions in a noble light. He wants us to like Itachi for attempting to do this. And Naruto certainly didn't seem to have any problem with it, and we all know he'd be the first to speak up if anyone dared cross his lover friend.
Naruto already has spoken up about Itachi's actions. Back when he met him previously and told him he was a terrible brother (then got a crow shoved down his throat). And just in the chapter previous to this, he told him how his actions had the unintended effect of turning Sasuke into a complete d*****bag. It seems to me he's spoken up quite a bit. If you're mad that Naruto didn't speak up about Itachi not hypnotizing Sasuke, you need to re-read this series. Seriously. Naruto is nothing if not forgiving of villains he understands that only barely don't manage to kill his friends. See Haku, Zabuza and Nagato for reference. And it's pretty obvious Naruto wouldn't be okay with the specific action of brainwashing Sasuke, since he internally stated while arguing with the supporting cast over why he didn't take out Sasuke while he was weakened that he wanted to defeat Sasuke "on the inside," i.e. change his mind himself. But it didn't happen. It is consistent with Naruto's character to take a "no harm, no foul" stance in this situation. But since you apparently can't even remember as far back as Kakashi vs. Sasuke, I can understand if you're unfamiliar with the character traits Kishimoto has established for Naruto. It just disqualifies you from having a meaningful opinion on any related matters.

Last edited by Discerptor; 2011-08-07 at 23:44. Reason: Edited for minor increase in civility.
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