[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

The criticisms of the "Fast and Furious" operation are a bit over-the-top. People are upset because some of the weapons that were knowingly (but unintentionally) allowed into the hands of the Mexican drug cartels were used in some violent confrontations. While that's understandable, let me ask you this: do you truly believe that the cartels would not have had a significant amount of weapons if the operation didn't take place? If it wasn't a tagged gun that we knew about, it would have been another gun. The way that people go on about it, you'd think that this operation was the difference between the cartels fighting with rocks and their fighting with guns. That's fantasy.

I know of no one making the claim that the cartels wouldn't be armed to the teeth without "Fast and Furious."
What most are arguing is that it is pure hypocrisy for Obama and/or Holder to call for an "assault weapon" ban if they knew the BATF was selling fully auto weapons to drug dealers.

Having been a gunsmith and thus required to have an FFL, let me assure you Ledgem that you cannot buy a .30 caliber, tripod mounted machine gun over-the-counter at a gun shop. The procedure requires filling out a Form-4, going through a long waiting period for a Class III license transfer (1-6 months), and an intrusive FBI background check. Only ATF can sell such a weapon (or authorize the sale of such a weapon) in a short period of time at point of sale.

The act of "gunwalking" (allowing the purchases to be made, and then following it) took place over the course of about five years, and actually started under President Bush. The idea behind it was solid: no matter how hard we try, we haven't been able to cut off the supply of weapons to the cartels as we have been operating. By allowing a cartel purchaser to make the purchase, and then following him, we could nab two birds with one net: having direct proof of involvement in arms trafficking, we would arrest the purchaser (my understanding is that, at present, we can only deny a sale to them because of suspicion) and arrest their cartel contact. The weapons would then be retrieved. If it worked as planned, there would be no issue of weapons getting away, and the cartel's weapons trafficking network would actually be losing members.

The idea was solid alright.
Sell guns to drug lords, bust the drug lords with American guns, blame "lax" gun-laws for them getting them and then push for more gun control.
The proverbial "Genie is out of the bottle" on this issue and there is no putting it back in.

The only question now is how much did Obama know?

The supply of actual assault weapons used by the drug cartels is coming from Central and South American sources.

Therefore, with that information at hand it becomes obvious that "Gunwalker," "Fast and Furious," and "Castaway" were all part of another screw up gun control scheme cooked up by the BATF.
There is no doubt about this anymore.

The problem is that our surveillance and tracking isn't perfect. Under Bush, no arrests were made because even though we tracked the traffickers to the border and informed the Mexican police about it, they were unable to continue tracking where we left off. Even though we began to make arrests under Obama, we could not track everyone, and a number of weapons slipped through the cracks. That's where the anger came from.

You make a fine case for sealing the border shut with military force, since after all, the Mexican gangs are armed with military grade weapons from Central American governments.
Closing the border and stopping all illegal crossing will stem the flow of weapons considerably; though not stop it entirely.

But all of this talk about focusing on the weapons is really rather ridiculous. Declawing the cartels from our end won't fix anything. Seeing how militarized they've become, they could probably create their own weapons. Where is the source of their power and influence coming from? Money. Where are they getting their money from? Illegal drug sales. What happens if the drugs aren't illegal anymore? The money flow dries up, and with it, the cartels. History has already shown that this is the outcome: see the mafia and the ban on alcohol, the Prohibition of the 1920's. I don't do drugs, never have and intend not to, but I think this entire thing is utterly foolish. Just legalize the damn things already.

On this we agree completely.
Legalize the drugs and you end the power of the drug gangs.
Colorado might be the first state to legalize Marijuana.
Wish us luck!