[The Yellow Dwarf]

Originally Posted by Mentar

At least your conclusions are very cynical. And while I'd say you've made a compelling case for Souma trying to play the _role_ of the chivalrous knight, I would not see this as mutually exclusive with _really_ genuinely loving Himeko. And on Chikane, I personally think that you're off, at least in your wording. "Ego" is the wrong term to describe her motivation.
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Well, it's convenient to skip it, since it's making your position easier to defend, but it's dangerous in the end. Since you come to the final conclusion that the driving force behind Souma and Chikane is ego instead of love, this omission is a bit problematic.

I really don't feel like discussing what love is and isn't. My conclusion was that they were both using Himeko for their own emotional and/or psychological needs irrespective of Himeko's well-being, or at the very least, less concerned about Himeko's well-being than their own. Maybe that is what love is, I dunno. I have no idea what love is, but maybe Freud and his disciples have a lot more to say about that. The conclusion is a little shaky, I agree. Mainly because there are more than one facets to why the two want Himeko.

Minor sidenote: Himeko starts with "Chikane-chan" in episode 6. Episode 1 is obviously after their meeting in 6, because in this scene Chikane invited Himeko in the rose garden where they first met.

Yes, and that's before she found out about "Miya-sama," which probably speaks more about how little they know of each other at Ep. 1. We could intepret it as a love at first sight in the tradition of R&J but the intepretation that it's an influence from Chikane's past is not so far-fetched either, IMNSHO.

Chikane's happiness is related to how close she can be to her "sun". She is happy when Himeko comes back crying to her arms after the first Souma date to be hugged and comforted by her ("she's coming to me"), and she is crying when Himeko comes back from the second date musing that maybe Souma is the one she's looking for after all ("I'm losing her"). [...]
If you want to atone for sins of the past, you do not go on a rampage to sin even MORE! If she just wanted to get rid of her burden of guilt, she would NOT make it even worse. But I guess that this may not be what you wanted to say and that you're rather agreeing with me on this:
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I think the reason Chikane gave makes much more sense: In order to be ABLE to atone, she had to make Himeko hate (and kill) her.

And I thought the jury already closed the book on Chikane already.
Well, there are a lot more aspects to the Chikane-Himeko relationship. IMO there are three major points: her seemingly uncontrollable lust, her ability to protect Himeko (or the lack thereof), and the guilt of the past life.

Her lust is the primary driving force for her desire to be close to Himeko, and the much the cause of her passive-aggressive stance. She wants to be close to Himeko, sure, but it's a lot closer than just "being together."

Well, as for the atonement part, the issue is kind of, well, stupid. Because there are only two Miko, you have to kill one or the other. So it's kind of impossible to argue whether she's doing it for Himeko or for herself. Your view makes sense, and it puts Chikane in a much better light. But that seems to contradict the series of events in which Chikane becomes part of the Orochi, and perhaps the most favored by Orochi.

Souma's condition aside (I already explained my stance that Orochi's influence on Souma is almost entirely alien), not just anybody can become part of the Orochi, (at least that's my opinion). The other five Orochi heads' suffering are, AFAWK, induced by external factors for which they have no control. But Tsubasa and Chikane (past) have one thing in common: their sufferings are mostly wrought by their own doings. They are both the assailants and the victims, their crimes and their pains are the same. That is why they cannot find salvation within themselves, and the reason they are the two strongest of the Orochi: their rage is not directed towards others (as is the case for the other five Orochi heads), but towards themselves.

The only way Chikane can find peace is for her to die by Himeko's hands, this semi-revenge on herself is the source of her "purple power" and the drive behind her actions. It is true that the aspect of saving Himeko's life and destroying herself are intertwined (there are only two Miko after all), but if her intentions are predominantly selfless, then that cannot, IMO, adequately explain where she gets her Orochi power.

And the coup de grace was not that Himeko "forgave" her for killing her in the past, it was Himeko's explanation why she _really_ loved Chikane too.
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To sum it up, the question is the good old "cui bono" ("to whose benefit"). Your cynical answer is "for themselves, for their ego". I think that's way too harsh. I'd rather say it was for Himeko ASWELL, who _both_ loved.

Hmm... I sort of agree, and sort of don't agree. IMHO the "coup de grace," as you put it, is not that Himeko professes her love for Chikane, but that Himeko loves Chikane despite the fact that Chikane killed her last time. The one obstacle that Chikane cannot overcome is how she can still be loved with what she had done in the past, but Himeko did not only forgive her, Himeko absolved her from her crime and her guilt.

It is true that by the end, Chikane totally fell apart. However, I think the most part of it all is that Himeko said that Chikane is neither an angel nor a devil, implying that Chikane doesn't need to always be the strongest, to always be the one protecting Himeko, nor was her past deed something abominable that she must be punished. Chikane crumbled because two things which she considered, up to that point, two defining characters of herself, fell apart under Himeko's words. All there left is lust.

I'm not sure if that's harsh to say that they're both doing it for themselves... Or rather, I'm not sure if doing it for themselves is unquestionable bad. There are self-serving and selfless parts to both Souma and Chikane, I just feel that the former overshadows the latter. (The same applies to Himeko, but I'm tired.)