[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by Metaneo

I literally said he wasn't a good King. None of what you describes makes him a bad person in the least.

But you said Gazef's loyalty wasn't misplaced. The problem is you should only loyal to a good leader, not a random good senile old man, it tends to not work well.

Gazef's plan failed because he didnt know Ainz had a Time Stop spell, however, while Brain and Climb couldnt make any sense of what they saw, they could always relay said info to an actual spell caster. Seeing Gazef fall to his death on his own is evidence enough to a knowledgeable spell caster that a Time Stop spell was cast. There's also other info I could tell you, but it might be considered spoiler territory.

That's too much of a stretch. There are countless conclusion could be taken from that outcomes: Ainz has an eye power that can kill just by looking, Ainz can kill just by his thought, Ainz used an underhanded method to poison Gazef before the duel, one of Ainz's henchmen possesses invisibility and killed Gazef, etc... All they saw was Gazef's humiliated defeat. Nothing good can be learnt from it.

Yes, I understand the age old saying "The Path to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions," but as manipulated as he is, his actions in and of themselves are Heroic. Climb has done nothing wrong and actively stands up for what he believes is right and just. His manipulator's intentions may not be in the right place but that doesnt apply to the actions Climb chooses to make when not under her orders.

If personal belief is the standard to evaluate one's worth, I can also say Demiurge is also pretty heroic at well. He also does what he believes to be right and just trying his best to be loyal to his liege and his comrades.

Except there's a massive difference between the two. Brain got his lifestyle shoved in his face, saw his mistakes and is trying to better himself. Ainz's actions are determined by layers of superficial acting, self doubt, and fear. Before I finish this I'd like to say this first, I do not consider Ainz a Hero nor his actions Heroic nor do I believe his means justify the ends if he DOES create his fair and good Utopia. What Ainz does is based off of 3 things; What makes him look good to his subordinates, because he's afraid of not being a proper lord to them. The combination of his Undead species AND his former human nature. And most important, What would make him look bad to his former guild-mates. If he didnt think a lot of things would be considered too extreme to his former companions, things would be A LOT more brutal.

The same can be applied to Ainz too. He also got his position shoved to his face, he made mistakes and tried his best to fix them, to better himself. Why do you think Brain's past misdeeds can be cancelled out by his future good deeds but the same thing can't be applied to Ainz?

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I do wonder; how would one start to ban slavery in the New World, if they want to do it as a hero?

One thing that was brought up in other places, was that modern Isekai stories almost NEVER ban slavery. The alleged hero may buy and free a slave or two, but slavery itself is just assumed to be something that can't be fought. That it is out of the hero's hands.

Yes, Reener tried to ban slavery in her nation, but it was still happening. And her nation was about to be destroyed by Empire and Theocracy, neither ban slavery as long as only Elves are enslaved.

I guess what I am saying, is that slavery can only be combated by actual military might and subjugation of peoples. People needed to be forced against their will to stop keeping slaves. And the traditional "Hero", could never do such a thing.

Yes, slavery in isekai is a big problem to me as well. I can never understand why someone who was born and raised in the modern society wouldn't try to ban that barbaric act when they had the chance and the power to do so. Many of isekai protagonists became literal gods but still did nothing about it. That's why I like Ainz, he is one of the few who really tries to make a better world for all instead of just defeating the dark lord, then wandering around and letting the people at the mercy of the rotting feudal system .
I mean, it shouldn't be that hard when they have the power to save or destroy the world. They can demand countries to ban slavery or face their wrath, or they can lead a worldwide revolution against it and topple any government that chooses to keep it, but they don't. In many case, heroes commit mass genocide and ethnic cleansing on entire races like demon, demihuman or anything non-human but still have an issue with forcing humans to abandon inhuman practice. It's some twisted morality.