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Old 2013-03-25, 17:59   Link #212
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
Forgot to address this:

Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
You don't have an "evolutionary dynamic" away from a dictatorship. Sybil is essentially a dictatorship. It is essentially a totalitarian oligarchy. You either bring down a dictatorship, or you don't.

We're not talking about corrupt politicians that you can simply vote out of power and replace with better and/or more forward-thinking leadership. Or specific bad policies that you can argue against, and win support for changing. We're talking about a ruling council of 250 disembodied brains. You either remove them from power, or you don't.

Honestly, to me, it's like you and Kacrice67 are talking about a bad government with bad policies in a democratic country. Of course the slow game is best then. That's one of the most wonderful things about a democracies. At regular 4 or 5 year intervals, you can "throw the bums out" without needing to do anything particularly chaotic or violent to achieve it.


Such non-violent/non-chaotic change is of course possible... in some societal contexts. Not in all. In some cases, you have a dictator with a tight hold on power, and that dictator does not want to relinquish his power even in the slightest. So what do you do? You can't gradually wean the people off of the dictator, as the dictator himself doesn't allow that to be an option.

I don't like saying it, but there really are some societal situations where it's either coup d'état or bust. The ruling regime gives you no other option. And frankly, that's the impression I get with Sibyl.

I understand what you are saying. But what it suggests is that there is no way for a totalitarian/authoritarian regime to democratise, and the history of our own world shows that this is simply not true. Even the US was arguably not a democracy for a significant part of its history, no matter what we might label it from our vantage point (if there's anyone who doesn't believe me, please have a look at the academic - and political - debate over the "democratic peace"). For East Asian examples, Taiwan and South Korea are probably better than Japan, but the latter appears to be becoming more (truly) democratic as well.

Sibyl is not totalitarian - as cyth has already pointed out, Makishima admitted as much, and they even acknowledge to Akane that they wish to eventually reveal themselves to the public, when they are confident that the public will accept them and choose to retain them as their 'referees'. Akane believes that people are not so naive, and that they will choose to discard Sibyl when that happens. You might argue that Sibyl can simply choose never to reveal themselves to the public, but again history shows that this doesn't work in most cases (the only real questionable case, at least from my knowledge, being North Korea). If a government does not address the needs and wants of its people, it will be taken down, so the only alternative is for it to adapt when enough dissenting voices appear. And there are signs that this was happening in the final credits, despite the laughter of those brains and those final words.

How Suetsugu Yuki drew the cover for Chihayafuru volume 34

Interview translations etc

You must free yourself from that illusion,
from the illusion that a story must have a beginning and an end.

"No, you are not entitled to your opinion... You are only entitled to what you can argue for.”
- Patrick Stokes

Last edited by karice67; 2013-03-25 at 18:18.
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