[azul120]

Originally Posted by Cynor

Ok, I'll give you that. But I still don't think that changes the outcome. Enough people knew about Geass by then by to be worried about it and wonder at its power. Also, there isn't much wrong with selective quote mining when it still gives the truth. If you can get the point across in 10 words you don't need to use 100.

In terms of lying, while it is true he was lying about it, he was only lying about the reason he did. I think that is the lie that Suzaku picked up on, as by then he knew all about Geass and there is no other way Euphy could have a change of heart.

Truth? Everyone was led to believe Lelouch deliberately geassed Euphie into killing the Japanese (this is what Lelouch lied about) when in reality it was an accident brought on by an off-hand comment made the very moment Lelouch's geass became permanent..

By then his reputation was already being torn to shreds and not many people trusted him. Look at what happened at the school when he did the "peace meeting" thing. Kallen was saying to kill her if they thought he used his Geass on her. They made countermeasures so they couldn't be Geassed. Do you really think they would be willing to sit down and talk with him? And let someone be Geassed just so he could prove a point? Especially given his past and how he pulled things that people thought impossible by using it. No, the risk is just too great.

You're jumping to conclusions. They could have their little talk with the aforementioned countermeasures, and have someone willfully volunteer for Lelouch to deemonstrate how his Geass works. And lastly, he could geass himself to truthfully answer any questions they might have.

If they were to not accept this, then that would demonstrate how callow they would be, given how they cooperated with Schneizel.

Also why would he want them to know how his main weapon worked? He had a GREAT chance to tell Kallen about his Geass and how it worked in the second episode of R2, and he says jack to her about it. Look at how loyal she was already, if he had just spilled the beans about how he Geassed her at school to find out if she was at the ghetto and learned that you could only use it once... Well truth be told she'd probably be dead as I doubt she'd have even asked Lelouch about that thing when he got called to the hanger. And Lelouch only said what he said then because he thought he was going to die and didn't want her to die too.

He told her that all of her choices were her own. That's pretty much all she needed to know. She was the only member of the Black Knights who knew his identity to begin with, let alone know about geass. Lelouch told her that her loyalty and choices were her own, and that's all she needed to know to the extent she wasn't being used. (She probably already had an idea from her year with C. C.) The Black Knights on the other hand were ready to shoot Lelouch on sight because of what they suspected. This was even more evident in the fact that they were ready to take Kallen down with him because she was suspected of being under Geass. That is why Lelouch KNEW he had no chance of survival, so he had to lie in order to have Kallen spared.

While you do have some valid points, was making the deal for Japan really going against the UFN though? The Black Knights were sent by the UFN to free Japan from Britannia. Though it was thought it was going to be a military conquest, the results would have been (were?) the same by selling out Lelouch. The Black Knights got Japan back from Britannia. I don't see how that betrays the UFN at all. Lelouch, yes. The UFN, no.

It DOES betray the UFN, not only because they're doing it behind their backs, but also because it's part of a ceasefire, practically leaving the rest of the member nations out to dry. The UFN did send them to free Japan, yes, but the rest of the world was the ultimate goal.

How could he have explained an imposter cause the Massacre Princess incident if he is explaining his Geass and it's power though? Ignoring the "confession", look at everything Euphy was giving up for it to happen. Also what reason would the Britannia have for pulling an elaborate ruse like that and then ordering the death of every (not just in the zone) Japanese there is?

Sorry to say, but I just don't see how Lelouch could talk his way out of that. He could maybe Geass his way out, but if he's explaining his Geass already as part of being nice and all that... Geass makes people do anything. What other reason could there be for the sudden change of heart.

Then you also have the fact that with how smart Zero was (granted no one knew his true identity then) and what he did it would be near impossible for someone to impersonate him and cause that incident. Especially with the radical change in Euphy which can really only be explained by Geass.[/QUOTE]

I'm talking about the public, who he wouldn't be explaining Geass to. As far as everyone knew, Euphy reappeared completely contrary to her normal self.

The nice thing about fanfics is they can bend the lore and warp things and explain things away THEIR way all they want. That doesn't mean it's true or fits in with what actually happened in the series. For example, by what you said the first basically throws out half the series in terms of events and lore and what happened. That can't even be (nor am I saying you're saying it is) consider close to canon. The second may be a little closer since you say it starts in 21, but that still probably throws away a lot of things that happened and characters attitudes and stuff like that.

That depends on what was taken and further established in a certain way. Changing Course didn't really throw out as much as you say it did.

Yeah. That really made me question the validity of the Zero Requiem.

He was already in too deep when he learned Nunnally was still alive. Which is ironic because Nunnally's apparent demise was one of the crucial events that incited the Zero Requiem in the first place.

I don't mind with Cornelia.
Her foolishness is limited by the similar mindframe called Euphimia, just like Suzaku.
The differences is, Suzaku learned and accept the truth, and Cornelia is learned but denying the truth.

Not just that, but she never really atones or repents for her sins. And really, she's no better than Lelouch for what she's done in- and pre-canon.

Ougi and Viletta ?
I don't mind with their relationship during S1. Because it's natural.

Perhaps, but that relationship caused Ohgi to abandon all rationality and make these really bad decisions: shot by Villetta during the Black Rebellion, goes AWOL to see her mid-R2 when he knows she plans on killing her, and inciting the betrayal in Turn 19 when no one else is buying into Schneizel's claims. And not only does he not get called out for his secret relationship with Villetta, an enemy spy, he is even allowed to take her onboard. Whereas Lelouch is punished for his similar irrationality related to Nunnally, Ohgi is rewarded for it.

As for Villetta, well, she mostly sought nobility, to which effect she did the following: she used Shirley, who was heavily traumatized, in order to capture Zero, she was part of the spy detail watching over Lelouch in R2 for her knowledge of Geass and identity as Zero, and even following her exposure to Lelouch in later episodes (including him telling her he didn't want Shirley involved anymore), she has the nerve to testify against Lelouch on Ohgi's supposed behalf even though she should supposedly know Geass isn't as dangerous as was being insinuated. And naturally of course, she's taken in by the Black Knights with Ohgi's assistance, basically coasting, while doing nothing. And she was part of the Purist Faction to boot.

That the both of them get the happiest ending in spite of all of this makes them almost as infuriating as Jay Leno.

But well--- R2 really make me angst by the fact :

- Accepting Schniezel to invade OoBK mindframe ( He's your enemy-- why he manufacturing the FLEIJA if it's not to eliminating all of you )

Divide and conquer.

- Playing "I'm a victim, so i have enough reason to betray him" ( It's Lelouch who gave you that uniform and pride )

I'd say Villetta was the one playing the "victim" card, haha.

- Sent Kallen as a bait and almost kill her in process ( She's Naoto sister, your friends little sister-- Even you forgot about her during the time when she's captured just by Viletta cases )
- Trade Lelouch for Japan ( It's the same thing with trading UFN with Japan, are you an idiot ? I'm understand if it's Kaguya, but Todo to share this mindframe, WTF )

Word. Both cases of sheer hypocrisy.

Kaguya herself was too smart too fall for that kind of a ruse, which was evidently why she was kept out of the discussion. Ditto Xing-ke.

- There's a flying fortress as a nuclear station. And you're allowing this even for just a one battle ? Especially knowing there's enough time to learn that Pendragon is already dissapeared from the map ?! Or also to learn that Lelouch army is a lot weaker compared to yours ?

Exactly. They never gave any good reason for Lelouch to loaf around while Schneizel had his window of opportunity in that month.

Too bad Mt. Fuji eruption failed to kill him.
But at least, he's located at the smallest and the furthest picture from the center on Kallen's board, not even his wedding picture located there.
I'm satisfied enough with the fact that even one of the main characters who knew him didn't really appreciate his happiness

Haha.
It disturbs me that he and Villetta get to start a family, while Lelouch, who had to carry a whole lot of the weight, dies a virgin. In my fanfic idea, Ohgi and Villetta are both taken into custody and eternal servitude by Zerozaku, their child is adopted by Kallen, who has assumed the surname Lamperouge, and renamed Shirley. And the rewritten birth story? She's the child of Kallen and Lelouch "Lamperouge", conceived not long before the death of the latter, who perished in the Mt. Fuji explosion. Poetic, no?