[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

So if GSD = "Hero defeats Villain", then it is meaningless?

Anh_Minh already covered this, but if we reduce every storyline to such simplistic elements, then we don't exactly have anything left to discuss. In my opinion, anyone using this kind of tactic is effectively conceding the argument.

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Deny it all you want, but it is true...

Curiously, I presumed that you fully believe everything you say. If this is indeed the case, then what's the point of simply reiterating it without adding anything of substance?

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

...there's nobody on this thread who decides that it is flippant or not, flame bait or not, trolling or not, except for Mr. Paper...

There's a difference between playing mod, and simply expressing my opinions on a particular posting style. I don't believe that making flippant remarks is a violation of TOS, therefore, it is not a modable offense in the first place.

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Fllay was actually naive?

naive --lacking experience, wisdom, or judgement.

Very much so. She performed all of her actions without understanding the ramifications of any of them. Fllay tried to do malicious things not because she could actually gain by it, but because she thought that she was clever, and because it was the only things that she could do. If she was more worldly, she could have easily made better choices for her self. As it was, her self-delusions tended to hurt herself far more than anyone else.

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Even if they are rabid Fllay haters, it gives you no reason to call them as such. You are then guilty of the same absurd thing you are accusing them of.

Why not? If someone missed details about Dulindal's plots, that's not really a problem - they are presented fairly subtly. Missing details of this kind is quite acceptable. However, in order to believe that Fllay was driven by just "meaness" and "cruelty" means that you'd have to miss an awful lot of rather obvious details about her. This, by any definition is well characterized by the descriptor of "unobservant".

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Lacus = Fllay foil in start of SEED. Lacus remained the same throughout SEED whereas Fllay actually changed. But you can't say that Lacus isn't a foil of Fllay anymore. Is being a foil only a one shot deal? That in order to become a character foil the protagonist in question should also remain static so as the foil could continue being a foil? Then that defeats the characterization of the protagonist in question then...it nerfs his/her development.

The problem is that the only time that Lacus can be considered a foil is while she was onboard Archangel. The next time she has a prominent role, Fllay has already changed greatly from what she was.

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

But they have similar roles. Both are daughters of high officials of teh supreme rulers of their respective universes. Fllay was used by the EAF to make their cause gain more support; Lacus used her father's name to gain more support (using her name to get more support). Fllay used Kira, Lacus "used" Kira. Fllay made Kira awesome in SEED mode, Lacus made Kira "awesome" in Freedom. Fllay was a "healer", Lacus was a healer.

Originally Posted by kodachrome

Cer, you forgot that their mothers were both dead before the start of the series, that their fathers both died in the series, they did not start out as part of the war but became involved, they were both Kira's women, and, oh yes - Lacus and Fllay are both girls. Watch as I grasp at the straws of comparison now.

And the exact same things would apply to Cagalli. And Athrun for that matter. This doesn't prove a thing. The fact of the matter is that Fllay and Lacus still have completely different roles in the story. Trying to make any connection beyond this is sort of futile.

Originally Posted by Deacon Blues

Anyways, what I find hilarious is how this is suppose to be a discussion on how GSD failed, not characters from Gundam SEED.

The problem is that we cannot even come to a consensus that Destiny did in fact fail. Therefore, we are left to discuss the peripheral issues.