AnimeSuki Forum - View Single Post - Psycho-Pass

Dawnstorm · 2012-12-22, 17:54

A couple of points, I'd like to address:

1. Makishima's disappointment: I think that's one of the more important points, here, since, if I'm right, it opens up interesting possibilities:

First, I think his disappointment stems from Akane's unwillingness to let go of the dominator. This disappointment then removes her from Makishima's radar, since she's just an uninteresting Sibyl puppet.

This is where he's wrong, though, and it's what turns Akane into the wild card in the Makashima vs. Kougami conflict. Akane certainly still believes in the Sibyl system, but we've seen her override a dominator in the very first episode, by stunning Kougami, nonetheless. So why does Akane hesitate?

I think, she's by nature more of a pacifist, and killing/hurting people doesn't come easy to her. She's got good marks from law inforcement, because that part's being handed over to the dominator: she doesn't need to make these decisions. So, clearly, being faced with having to take responsibility for a kill (no stun-mode on a shotgun), Akane isn't quite in control. She's not a blind puppet of the system; but what if the system is right and Makishima's not going to hurt her and this some strange suicide tactic? (Very unlikely, but if you have to do something that's against your nature [and Akane is decidedly not a killer], you start to rationalise things, and the little chance that she's wrong and the system is right can make her hesitate.)

Makishima has told her that, if she doesn't use both hands to aim the gun, she won't hit him, and yet Akane holds on to the dominator. Disappointing. But he misreads her, I think (as outlined above), something that might to a pleasant surprise later on.

Pleasant? On to number 2.

2. Makishima's Motivation: For some reason, and that's really wild speculation, I see him as a spoiled brat; intelligent, clear psycho pass, so he always got away with anything. That leads him to (a) distrust the system, and (b) to use it to his advantage. He looks down on anybody who trusts the system, and throws cogs into the wheel, wherever he can. I think he's looking for someone to understand him; and that ultimately entrails punishment. Clearly, what he's doing is wrong. He knows it, but the system won't acknowledge it. I think, deep down he wants to be punished. As a child, he probably felt misunderstood and lonely, because he was never punished (while others were punished for something they haven't even done yet).

So his motivation is two-fold: (a) He dispises the Sibyl system, and this guides his actions. People who don't just follow the system draw his interest, but if they really just follow some other system, that's not really better is it? First guy was good at impersonating online celebrities, but lacked a personality of his own. Slave to a self-opposed celebrity system. School girl was just copying her father (without real understanding). Not sure if Mr. Cyborg disappointed him or not; I lean towards not.

(b) A possibly unacknolweged but probably conscious urge to be punished for his crimes, not out of a sense of justice, but out of a sense of jealousy. For him, not being punished isn't a breach of a moral code, but an indication that people don't actually pay attention to him. (Other people get all the attention, but they don't deserve it, because - if they're justly punished in accordance with some system - then they're boring.)

It's a kind of narcissism: your smart, you get away with anything - you're special.

So the only person allowed to punish him is someone who can by-pass the system. He never expected Akane to shoot him, but if I'm correct, he'd have been pleasantly surprised if she actually did. I honestly think he wouldn't have minded dying like that.

If Akane shot him, would Makishima just have "passed on the curse"? On to (3):

3. Crime Coefficient: So how does the CC relate to the psycho pass? I'd say, one half of it is the Psycho Pass, which represents the mental state. But since the dominator connects to the Sybil system, I think there's a biographical aspect, too: what have you done? Surely, someone who actually comitted a crime in the past is more likely to committ another one, even if the psycho pass comes out clear? Surely, if you defy authority, you're more likely to commit a crime (since you don't respect authority)?

Is it time to put the name Makishima into quotes now? Remember that "Makishima" is a stolen identity and the attached biography is not his own. A low psycho pass reading and a clean biography, hm... Will we know him as "Makishima" throughout the entire show, I wonder? (A possible weak-point in that line of thought is that the identity might not be all that clean. I have a vague memory that they said something to that effect. I can't check right now, so does anybody remember?)

Of course, it's not that simple, either. Take the current situation. Could the Sibyl system construe the present situation as self-defense? Akane never pointed the dominator at Yuki, so there's no data, there. But what if Yuki's CC is higher than Makishima's? Would Sibyl conclude that Makishima acted in self defense? If so, what about the lack of expected stress? (Surely, someone killing someone else whithout any stress is suspicious?)

What does Makishima's decreasing CC mean? Submitting to the fatalism of having to kill? Could he be a reluctant killer, who - the closer he comes to the necessity of it - submits to a fatalism? (This goes back to blackwhite67's interesting speculation: what if he acts in accordance with the system? Calm killings that cull the overly emotional? And what if he finds that out?

Now, I'm not nearly convinced this is true; it's just an interesting path to pursue: submission as a key point to a low crime coefficient. We have seen the cathartic effect killing can have on the psycho pass in the drone episode. That's why I think the psycho pass alone can't be enough to calculate the CC. But "Makishima's" record doesn't fit the person. So what now?

It's sort of odd, though, that nobody comments on it in these terms. Basically, the CC confuses me, which is probably why I'm rambling now.

***

Finally, I was surprised about how little I was drawn into this episode. An example, when they played Beethoven during the hunt, I found this cheesy. Yet, I'm normally susceptible to this sort of thing. The entire episode seemed to me a bit overwrought. (I also felt, they "celebrated" Yuki's death a bit too much - not as something good, but in a this-is-important manner.) I couldn't really get into this episode as much as into the others so far. Why?

2012-12-22, 17:54	Link #111
Dawnstorm Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Austria	A couple of points, I'd like to address: 1. Makishima's disappointment: I think that's one of the more important points, here, since, if I'm right, it opens up interesting possibilities: First, I think his disappointment stems from Akane's unwillingness to let go of the dominator. This disappointment then removes her from Makishima's radar, since she's just an uninteresting Sibyl puppet. This is where he's wrong, though, and it's what turns Akane into the wild card in the Makashima vs. Kougami conflict. Akane certainly still believes in the Sibyl system, but we've seen her override a dominator in the very first episode, by stunning Kougami, nonetheless. So why does Akane hesitate? I think, she's by nature more of a pacifist, and killing/hurting people doesn't come easy to her. She's got good marks from law inforcement, because that part's being handed over to the dominator: she doesn't need to make these decisions. So, clearly, being faced with having to take responsibility for a kill (no stun-mode on a shotgun), Akane isn't quite in control. She's not a blind puppet of the system; but what if the system is right and Makishima's not going to hurt her and this some strange suicide tactic? (Very unlikely, but if you have to do something that's against your nature [and Akane is decidedly not a killer], you start to rationalise things, and the little chance that she's wrong and the system is right can make her hesitate.) Makishima has told her that, if she doesn't use both hands to aim the gun, she won't hit him, and yet Akane holds on to the dominator. Disappointing. But he misreads her, I think (as outlined above), something that might to a pleasant surprise later on. Pleasant? On to number 2. 2. Makishima's Motivation: For some reason, and that's really wild speculation, I see him as a spoiled brat; intelligent, clear psycho pass, so he always got away with anything. That leads him to (a) distrust the system, and (b) to use it to his advantage. He looks down on anybody who trusts the system, and throws cogs into the wheel, wherever he can. I think he's looking for someone to understand him; and that ultimately entrails punishment. Clearly, what he's doing is wrong. He knows it, but the system won't acknowledge it. I think, deep down he wants to be punished. As a child, he probably felt misunderstood and lonely, because he was never punished (while others were punished for something they haven't even done yet). So his motivation is two-fold: (a) He dispises the Sibyl system, and this guides his actions. People who don't just follow the system draw his interest, but if they really just follow some other system, that's not really better is it? First guy was good at impersonating online celebrities, but lacked a personality of his own. Slave to a self-opposed celebrity system. School girl was just copying her father (without real understanding). Not sure if Mr. Cyborg disappointed him or not; I lean towards not. (b) A possibly unacknolweged but probably conscious urge to be punished for his crimes, not out of a sense of justice, but out of a sense of jealousy. For him, not being punished isn't a breach of a moral code, but an indication that people don't actually pay attention to him. (Other people get all the attention, but they don't deserve it, because - if they're justly punished in accordance with some system - then they're boring.) It's a kind of narcissism: your smart, you get away with anything - you're special. So the only person allowed to punish him is someone who can by-pass the system. He never expected Akane to shoot him, but if I'm correct, he'd have been pleasantly surprised if she actually did. I honestly think he wouldn't have minded dying like that. If Akane shot him, would Makishima just have "passed on the curse"? On to (3): 3. Crime Coefficient: So how does the CC relate to the psycho pass? I'd say, one half of it is the Psycho Pass, which represents the mental state. But since the dominator connects to the Sybil system, I think there's a biographical aspect, too: what have you done? Surely, someone who actually comitted a crime in the past is more likely to committ another one, even if the psycho pass comes out clear? Surely, if you defy authority, you're more likely to commit a crime (since you don't respect authority)? Is it time to put the name Makishima into quotes now? Remember that "Makishima" is a stolen identity and the attached biography is not his own. A low psycho pass reading and a clean biography, hm... Will we know him as "Makishima" throughout the entire show, I wonder? (A possible weak-point in that line of thought is that the identity might not be all that clean. I have a vague memory that they said something to that effect. I can't check right now, so does anybody remember?) Of course, it's not that simple, either. Take the current situation. Could the Sibyl system construe the present situation as self-defense? Akane never pointed the dominator at Yuki, so there's no data, there. But what if Yuki's CC is higher than Makishima's? Would Sibyl conclude that Makishima acted in self defense? If so, what about the lack of expected stress? (Surely, someone killing someone else whithout any stress is suspicious?) What does Makishima's decreasing CC mean? Submitting to the fatalism of having to kill? Could he be a reluctant killer, who - the closer he comes to the necessity of it - submits to a fatalism? (This goes back to blackwhite67's interesting speculation: what if he acts in accordance with the system? Calm killings that cull the overly emotional? And what if he finds that out? Now, I'm not nearly convinced this is true; it's just an interesting path to pursue: submission as a key point to a low crime coefficient. We have seen the cathartic effect killing can have on the psycho pass in the drone episode. That's why I think the psycho pass alone can't be enough to calculate the CC. But "Makishima's" record doesn't fit the person. So what now? It's sort of odd, though, that nobody comments on it in these terms. Basically, the CC confuses me, which is probably why I'm rambling now. *** Finally, I was surprised about how little I was drawn into this episode. An example, when they played Beethoven during the hunt, I found this cheesy. Yet, I'm normally susceptible to this sort of thing. The entire episode seemed to me a bit overwrought. (I also felt, they "celebrated" Yuki's death a bit too much - not as something good, but in a this-is-important manner.) I couldn't really get into this episode as much as into the others so far. Why?