[npcomplete]

Originally Posted by Theowne

They've lost control over their product. They aren't responsible for ensuring every human being can buy their entertainment products, and choosing not to doesn't mean their products rightfully become up-for-grabs for open distribution on the internet.

But if you at it from a black-box perspective, where you only measure the effects, then like Vexx said they have logically lost nothing tangible.

Those trying trying to control every aspect of access with an iron fist, especially when it does not negatively affect their bottom line, end up hurting their own reputation and business. Just look at the Warner Music Group (WMG) fallout with Youtube that led to all videos featuring songs whose rights are held WMG either being removed or audio being muted, and even their own music videos removed. Previously, most people were not aware of what WMG controls. Now, people who could have cared less about the industry are now keenly aware of WMG in a negative way with several videos and pages on youtube detailing all of the corporate WMG -> label -> sub-label -> artist chain.

In contrast, you have Kadokawa who in the past year+ decided to take things in stride. They struck a deal with youtube where they simply got a cut in ad revenue (a tiny amount per view/click) for material identified as owned by Kadokawa. Music videos and episode clips and full episodes are still uploaded. So they've lost control but it actually benefited them quite a bit.

Likewise if people who watched the series but don't have it available to them in any way to purchase, like how most of their shows start off, can still purchase figures, remix cds, books, and other merchandise that in turn still benefits Kadokawa, perhpas more so.

Even more recently, can you imagine how it would've affected Aniplex if they decided to clamp down on Kannagi from day one? Fansubs, youtube uploads, etc. Imagine the difference in reception they would've gotten at their panels in Otakon or their release announcement on the same day. Heck I think there probably would not be as many Kannagi cosplayers. Instead they took advantage of its popularity--popularity that grew outside of their control--starting with that mysterious US http://www.nagisamafanclub.com page launched months before the licensing announcement/DVD release.

And they did the same with Kara no Kyoukai, showing KnK for the first time in the US with the movie #5, the latest at the time, at the Boston con rather than starting with #1, along with hosting Yuki Kajiura and Kalafina. It's impossible that they are not aware of its popularity via fansubs.

Finally it's the same with Viz/TV Tokyo for Naruto. It was like the perfect transition. Had they clamped down hard long before simulcast, I doubt they would have as many viewers through CR, Hulu, etc.

edit: to get back on topic...

Originally Posted by einhorn303

I've always thought this argument to be a bit flawed, since it's not like studios straight up don't *want* to distribute their shows overseas...they shop it around and offer it up for licensing. It's just that it's not economically feasible to license, or the R1 licensing companies only have enough income/market strength to license a few titles, or R1 companies don't think it's possible to pay the price the studio thinks their show is worth. All problems which can be, indirectly, traced back to illegal distribution and poor DVD sales.

Although, really, this thread is about ADV specifically, not a general Fansubs vs Legitimate Releases or whatever debate. So let's not try to get too off-topic.

Actually in an interview, Funi's CEO said that most licensors nowadays do not ask for much, if any at all, of an advance payment in licensing (ignoring big, hugely popular shows) instead opting for a cut per unit. Years ago R1 companies would pay a huge sum then recoup the costs and keep most of the profit later. It's probably the reason why Sentai/ADV/Section23/whatever are able to release the new titles to retailers with such a low street price. So I don't think there that many financial barriers for licensing old or niche shows now.

(BTW you might be thinking "licensor", but it's really not the "studios" who determine the price, nor are they the recipient of such fees They are usually out of the picture once a show is done.)

WRT regional licensing in general.. IMHO, it's ultimately unnecessary