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Old 2009-09-25, 21:30   Link #2034
SeedFreedom
Hina is my goddess
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstert View Post
You said earlier that you'd need to see a miracle before you can believe in God. Then you said since God refused to show such a miracle, then faith must not be important to his plan. What I'm trying to say is that faith becomes more important when there is no miracle to be seen. Since without a miracle, there is only faith that can make you believe in God.

In other words, if you see neither God himself nor other undeniable proof of God's existence (such as an unexplainable miracle in your case), yet you are still certain of his existence, that is only possible through faith. And that's why faith becomes more important, rather than less, by God choosing not to show a miracle.
But that's under the assumption i need to believe in god, hence i need faith. If you must label what created this universe, god might be a fitting title, but i don't believe it is some omnipotent being worthy or desiring praise. More likely it is some mass of energy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
Actually, you are seeing things from a non-religious angle. For those who believe, life itself is provided by God. They are alive because God created them. This is all the miracle someone who believes needs. Taking things for granted is not really an answer as most of humanity lacks essential needs that the civilized world wastes in luxury exactly because it takes them for granted. For example, I didn't know for several years that many types of plants and animals are not that plump and big in wildlife. They were made as such after thousands of hybrid improvements. Yet I always thought they were big everywhere. If polution keeps rising, in a few decades the very air all generations so far took for granted will no longer be seen mundane. And so on. Faith is like that. The believer gives a lot of importance to things most people find unimportant.

Sure, all new religions begin as sects. The only difference amongst the two is the number of believers.

See, you did it again. You keep taking things for granted. God gives you a gun. You are free to use this gun any way you like. If you blow your brains out, it's your fault. If you use the gun to hunt and gather meat from animals, it's your gain. Salvation is saving yourself from yourself.
Ok, so by that logic, if i hand a monkey a gun, and it uses it and accidentally shoots another monkey without knowing how to use it, then i punish it by restricting its food would that be fair? yes the gun could help the monkey. But it had no comprehension of how it works. Lets say further this monkey saw someone use the gun to shoot someone else and steal their food, thereby thinking this is how a gun should be used, and is then punished for shooting another monkey. Is that different than being tempted by another to sin or led astray without the proper tools to fight it?

Ignoring all of that, if god gives me a tool,say free will, and doesn't help me use it properly, say by allowing me to give into temptation or be fooled by a false prophet, and punishes me when i had no chance to do the right thing, then why should i praise him and follow a religion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
Thank you for clarifying that for everyone. I understand subjectivity in this and all but...Don't you believe that humans are naturally/originally "good"---using the majority definition of good of course---and that, *that* "gene" exists within every human? Do you believe that some people are, by nature, inherently "evil"?

To me, as far as history goes, by majority, it's pretty clear that humans do have that *good* tendency to actually strive for organization, peace and harmony, as oppose to destruction, chaos and complete violence. (This might not be a very strong point considering how there were world wars.)

....And for my explanation for the *evil* minority: they're either affected by some heavy emotional nurture issues or are/were not mentally/properly "human" anymore----psychological defects.
I know this wasn't directed to me, but i want to respond.
I don't believe people are either born good or evil, only someone sees a mutual benefit in helping each other and hence "good" was formed. Otherwise people are motivated by greed. Either greed for acceptance, praise, or material goods.
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