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Old 2016-11-08, 17:46   Link #2683
magnuskn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by HirouKeimou View Post
Dude. (Because I'm a girl!)
I've called enough girls "Dude" before to not care a wit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HirouKeimou View Post
None of your quote has anything to do with how Grace could know Ranka would choose abandoning the cockpit to talk to Ai-kun or if Ai-kun will capture her. This, again, is all a big plot convenience.
No, that is Grace using the situation as it developed to her advantage. I did not say that Grace knew what exactly would happen. But she did know that Ranka could communicate with the Vajra and so her and the cabal could make informed guesses and wait for a good opportunity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HirouKeimou View Post
And again, I call bullshit on Grace knowing everything Ranka will do. Her gaining control over Ranka is a plot development which could have easily been done on Frontier, too; and eventually transported her to the Vajra Queen later on while she's brainwashed.
What has that to do with plot convenience? No, as I said above, Grace did not know exactly what Ranka would do, but she could make informed guesses and grab any opportunity to further her agenda, which she did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HirouKeimou View Post
That's your opinion.
Yeah, that's kinda what everybody does here, express their opinions. For me, Isamu was a gigantic dick who I wanted to punch in his smug face every second he was on screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HirouKeimou View Post
Personally, I didn't believe Frontier did anything spectacular or refined at all; in fact, I could argue it's number of fillers did not help in this.
Well, that's just your opinion, man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HirouKeimou View Post
I could see it coming from episode 12 on...?
I mean, from a viewer point of view, she is portraying a normal teenage girl who is directly involved in this war because of her connection to their enemy (regardless of contrived or not, meaning if said event could occur in real life). She basically is continuously questioning which side is right or wrong, and because she has no political power or physical ability to challenge their leaders on if this situation is right or wrong, she basically goes along with everything because it's all she can do (similar to how people do in real life). The choices she commits to in episode 21 are basically because she is utilizing what little power and freedom of speech she has in this war by abandoning Frontier and solving this on her own. She had no friends in the military who could listen to her (especially without Mishima knowing about it) once Ozma and Catherine are fugitives; and she did try to explain her reasoning to Alto, too (even if she didn't do it direct enough).
Yeah, not what I was talking about and I won't get into a discussion about the little traitors deeds in ep 21, I can already see that we'll both be wasting our time.

What I meant was her turnaround in suddenly making it all about Alto and forsaking her promise to sing for her home and friends, which led directly to the Vajra larva massacring thousands when she flipped her shit after seeing Sheryl and Alto embrace on that rooftop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HirouKeimou View Post
Ironically, I had a little more trouble on her (or even Alto) not picking up on Grace's 180 from supporting her beloved Sheryl to supporting Ranka between episodes 15 and 16. That... should have raised eyebrows on any of the main characters, especially the main trio.
She was assigned by the government to do it, remember? Sheryl was in sickbed and out of action for most of that time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HirouKeimou View Post
Ironically, on your bit of S.M.S. wishing to help Ranka and going to Galia 4, I could equally argue how S.M.S. more than likely did not know where the Vajra home planet is or if Ranka had gone to it (as in if she is there now). They also would be generally outnumbered if Ranka had not arrived to deliver her peace message to the Vajra prior so I'll consider this little sequence to be a very smart choice on their part (even if it is contrived for it all because Grace had no connection to Galaxy or Mishima during her time on Galia 4 so it again did not prove Mishima is a traitor for the other leaders).
AGAIN, they did not need to go to Gallia IV to prove Leon was a traitor, they needed information on Grace to connect her to Rankas backstory and Galaxy. Cathy getting the opportunity to accuse Leon directly to his face in front of the military leaders was enough to instantly flip them to her side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HirouKeimou View Post
On Alto, no offense but prior to his chiming in, the leaders asked for a little proof that their accusation holds water. In other words, if Alto had not chimed in, S.M.S. basically would've gained nothing from all their findings because how could they shoot down Ranka not knowing if it's really her or not. It's Alto who revealed it's not; but if he'd died (which is a whole other shitload of bullshits for him not dying, meaning conveniences abundance here), S.M.S. is screwed on proving it unless they're willing to risk killing Ranka and jeopardizing their mission to communicate with the Vajra and gain peace...
Alto bailing out was pretty much what at least 75% of the board saw coming at the end of ep 24, so I don't know how you can call that a "plot convenience". Apparently that expression just means to you "plot developments I don't approve of", so I think I'll stop discussing with you about this after this post.

Yes, SMS did not gain all the information they needed to know everything. Why would they have to? They came with important information to Frontier, Alto was there to fill in the rest, the story makes sense. You can argue that things were fitting together very quickly in these last minutes of the show, but, well, nothing came out of nowhere and we are still making a comparison to the quality between Frontier and Delta.

How anyone can with a straight face make the argument that Frontier also was full of plot holes, I'll never understand. I won't try to say that they didn't rush it towards the end and that everything fit together perfectly, but in comparison to Delta, which is so full of plot holes, plot conveniences and abandoned plot elements that it resembles a swiss cheese with particularly many holes, yes, Frontier is much, much, much better.
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