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Old 2010-12-18, 01:27   Link #19872
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Originally Posted by CrystalStarlight95 View Post
Wow. You guys are really taking this seriously, huh? Absolutely no offense (as in, don't get mad at me D:], but please cool it, take some chill pills, aren't we just supposed to discuss theories and what-not? Let's just talk normally, okay? Umineko is just a game, I don't want everybody arguing about the ways they think and speculate. I know I'm sounding so cheesy right now, just calm down, people...
Don't worry, as Renall said, we've been discussing like this for a long while. And still is not like we hate each other or something.

Wow this could be the start of a new trend: "Don't get the wrong impression! It's not like I hate you or something, Geez!"

Originally Posted by Renall View Post
He said we need to pay attention to them and to what they say. He said what they say is very important and touches on some of the most important themes of the story. That's definitely true. That doesn't mean they are speaking in plain and ordinary truth, and if you think that I can't imagine why given that theatrics is basically their gimmick. It's like trying to untangle Shakespeare. No doubt their words are full of truth. That doesn't follow that their words are necessarily true.
But here we aren't really talking about something that was spoken in riddles... the issue at hand here is the fact that all the couples can be happy in the golden land.
Whatever is its true meaning what we have seen is its realization in the metaworld.
So how can this be a surprise? Of course the metaworld is by itself a metaphorical world. So the fact that it happens in the metaworld means as much as the statement itself, you must interpret it in a certain way. But whatever is your interpretation it must work for both.

Originally Posted by Renall View Post
In addition to being personally insulting, this is incredibly arrogant and factually incorrect. The evidence is quite subject to interpretation and most of it is clear as mud. If it were crystal, Ryukishi wouldn't be going into ep8 as happy about his work as he is. He thinks he's got something good to end on. If everything were crystal clear, there'd be nothing to surprise us.
We aren't talking about mysteries here, we are talking about narrative facts. What you are denying right now are not stuff that are supposed to be riddles, you are denying basic concepts that you should have understood and accepted by now.

Like for example the importance of semantic in this story: the fact that the actual meaning of a word could have important implications.

And you can't really say that you didn't know that, not after Battler in various occasions asks for the definition of certain concepts. Not after the "names are not exclusive" argument was brought up. Not after Battler declared in red that he would kill Beatrice.

Denying this would be more insulting for your intelligence than for mine.

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