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And Kariya is more pitifull than heroic. She suffers much and he even unsuccessfulin the end he's hurting the one he loves. If you watch him without knowing his original cause of joining the war you see him more like a villian(well, it's somewhat true to Kirigisu too)
I think neither of them is a better hero than Shirou. It's just forcing it. But perhaps watching a F/Z movie would be quite good. And it would solve the route debate.
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