[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Kylegoblue

I freely admit in my post that I was merely coming up with a creative, albeit simplified, alternative. I wasn't really attempting to predict how things would "reallY' playout in a fictional world. They play out in the way intended by their creators. We're just left to interpret their story. The only opinion I was trying to express was that I think she's a good character that contributed significantly to the story, and not as bad as some try to portray her.

My degree is in engineering and I work in IT so I know nothing about writing stories. Everything I post is just my take and not meant to offend. Hopefully it didn't come off that way.

No, of course not. But if you put something like "Neither Sheryl nor Alto did habe much growth of character" ( paraphrasing here ) into the room, and you get arguments against that, at least try to adress those points.

As for the second topic, about how the characters just play out like the creators intended for the story, well, I already said that my viewpoint is totally different. I prefer to judge a character by how that character developed in the storyline, applying common sense modifiers against his actions.

Assuming that a character behaved stupidly, just because the story had to move forward, doesn´t cut it with me. Since all the other characters in Macross Frontier did not exhibit this behaviour, Ranka stands out and gets that much of a bigger share of criticism from me.

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

While there are some characters that are visible antagonists, I don't think Macross is designed as a story about morality. Nor, for that matter, is overcoming personal "flaws" an essential part of character development; the vital change is occurs within the audience in their perception of the character. (This is where my stance differs from mag, since I couldn't care less about a character's "morality" (whatever that may mean), so long as they're interesting to watch.)

I actually do care about morality a lot. Doesn´t mean that I can´t love the occasional amoral bastard ( Alucard from TV Hellsing is pretty cool. Alucard from OVA Hellsing is a monster which I can´t stand ) and since I am an agnostic with social democratic leanings, my views on how a society should behave are pretty mild. But, yeah, values like compassion, empathy, courage, honor and the like carry meaning with me.

That said, I don´t really get how you see the preceding discussion being about morality. Characters having development and overcoming personal flaws may be about their morality, but in the case of Macross Frontier, the characters morality isn't the main theme of the show.

As for your assertion about that overcoming character flaws is not essential for character development, I cannot concur. A character which does not change is static.
You can work around that as a storywriter, by presenting him in a wrong light and then revealing to the audience that their perspective simply was wrong, therefore reaching that change of perception you are alluding to.
Also characters can, of course, change due to circunstances but simply be thrown from one inner perspective into the next, without abandoning any inherent flaws at all.
But you can´t dismiss overcoming flaws as non-relevant for characterization and character growth. Other methods of characterization can be chosen by a writer, but it definitely is a part of the repertoire of character development.

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

Likewise, her conflict with Alto is also in want of some direction. From episode fifteen onwards, Ranka was conflicted between fighting the Vajra to make Alto happy, and resolving the feelings of discomfort that she felt whenever fighting them. By episodes twenty and twenty-one, Ranka was left with the feeling that he was simply using her as a tool to fight the Vajra. While the end of the conflict with the Vajra removes the need for Ranka and Alto to be on opposite sides, it's unclear how she resolved her feelings about being used between episode twenty-one and episode twenty-five. This is likewise a time issue, as it's the sort of thing that would require a face to face conversation to sort out.

Bwuh? Where exactly was it shown that Ranka thinks Alto is using her as a tool to fight the Vajra? I mean, like, at all?

Originally Posted by Snowblind

Your point? Spell it out here. I'm not going to waste time writing every possible response to that picture. O.o

Then use the search function. This has been discussed over.and.over.and.over again since November, in this very thread and others. You asking ( in a quite hostile tone, no less ) to have it spelled out yet again seems like nothing but an attempt to steal my time.