[Thess]

Originally Posted by SJCrew

Rider doesn't but, Iksander, King of Conquerors sure did.

Nasuverse =/= True take of legends or history. Or is King Arthur a 14 years old moe girl? I didn't think so.

Rider IS Iskandar Nasuverse style. He is not really short, bishounen or bitchy or cares about history books. He is pretty much the closest of a shounen hero Fate/Zero has.

Hell, Gilgamesh is the BEST RULER EVER in the epic (after he wises up), but in Nasuverse he destroyed his own kingdom which is against his portrayal in the legend.

Please don't bring real stuff into Nasuverse.

Originally Posted by SJCrew

Rider has history like every other character, and it's an important part of understanding who it is. You seem to be viewing the jolly big guy through a rose-tinted lens. But alas, he was not always a carefree goof...

Which is explained via dream and Waver. The historical records were INverse acknowledged as crap, aside of the time when he died, for the record.

Originally Posted by SJCrew

To quote episode 11: "The king does not make sacrifices. We are heroes because we are tyrants." Part of his self-centered ideology still exists today. Unlike Saber, he believes in tyrannical rule and rejects the concept of altruism.

Yeah, that was before he revealed the King and the Subjects are one and the same in the wishes. The king's wishes are his people's wishes. Why do you think Saber went so emo? She had to eat her judgmental words about him not caring about his followers when he revealed "oh my greatest power/treasure" is basically them.

He means with 'sacrifices' is that he doesn't hold back in his lust and greed for life itself. He doesn't bottle up stuff like Saber does. He has to give an EXAMPLE to his people, because they will copy him. Actually, similar like Saber. Except instead of destroying his humanity like Arturia did, he embraced it fully.

Only that in his case it worked. It worked so well that his defeated enemies abandoned everything to join him.

Saber's all about denial, of the good and the bad of being a person. Rider's all about excess, of the good and the bad. Although both are portrayed on the good scope mostly. They are foils. They are both very idealistic characters, with a different set of dreams that in essence are good, yet to maintain them means sometimes to go warring.

If you want me to give you spoilers of specific selfless actions he makes, yet in his POV aren't sacrifices, I can PM you.

Originally Posted by SJCrew

Killing Mordred did not have anything to do with her goal. If you wanted to go that far, Mordred technically wasn't even her son; he was a homunculus born within the womb of her sister, using her DNA. If anything, he's more of a clone. So essentially, Saber killed a clone of herself, but only because he proactively attacked and ultimately killed her. Even in her final breaths, she thought only about her country. No wrongful blood on her hands there.

You're missing the point: Mordred loved Saber as a parent. Saber loved him too, but she never allowed herself human feelings. It was all a sad misunderstanding where he thought she hated him for being who he was. And she never meant that.

Of course it's her fault. It was a consequence of how she chose to rule. Do you think that didn't affect her? She felt that she failed so badly even her son (which was the closest she had) turned against her. That makes her all more tragic. It wasn't just the kingdom, but her own blood that wanted to kill her.

Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto

And okay, so Iri foils the others, but so do Rider and Waver, or Kayneth and Lancer. But at least either person from both duos didn't get overtaken by the personality of the other (but whether I like Waver or Kayneth is a different story).

...When has Iri's personality been overtaken by Saber, Kiritsugu or Maiya? In all the times she's on screen, she easily pushes herself as dominant personality.