[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Haak

They never got that Mass Driver. It was destroyed.

I know they didn't, i mentioned that in a earlier post. I said that it was their reason for invading Orb in SEED along with Azrael wanting to test out the 3 druggies.

And the fact that your pointing out more plot holes isn't going to make Orb's decision to join EA any less contrived. To me it just further shows that the the whole decision relies on you swallowing a lot of BS.

swallowing a lot of BS?
no, i simply accept the fact that the show took that route, even how retarded it may seem, arguing over the fact that it was a stupid choice. Which i've never denied that it was, i've only said that due to the Seirans being in charge, it makes more sense seeing how they are pretty much polar opposites to Uzumi (Instead of letting Orb burn to the ground to keep their ideals intact, they simply give up to the EA by abandoning Orb/Attha's Ideals)

Destiny itself is BS, complaining that dogpoop smells like shit when you sit near it by choice is a pretty dull statement, you know

Hey you were the one who said he regretted it. When i said he didn't regret it, my point was that despite knowing what happened, he'd probably still do it again at that point (although of course he'd obviously try to limit the chaos but he'd still do it).

Let me rephrase then, he regretted the outcome of the battle(Heliopolis being destroyed) but not the battle itself, does that make it more clear?

I'm a bit lost on what you're trying to say. I agree that the high command would not agree to a full scale invasion.

Honestly, i'm not quite sure what point you are trying to get across here, you stated Athrun was high in the chain of command, i simply stated he was a regular red-coat with more knowledge than the average grunt seeing how his father was on the council. Athrun himself holds no more political power than say, Yzak does.

Like I said, in Episode 25 in SEED, Yzak and Athrun were arguing about whether to ignite a full scale conflict. At that point it's not just one ship any more. It clearly has the potential to be a whole lot more.

Episode 25:
Athrun:But as long as tha t's Orb's official response to the situation, sitting here and screaming our heads off saying its fale won't do us any good, will it?
Yzak:What?
Athrun:If we forced our way there, it would end up becoming a diplomatic matter involving our nation.
Yzak: I'd say thats a pretty coolheaded decision, Athrun.
Yzak: Oh, excuse me, Commander Zala *correcting himself
Dearka:So, arte you saying we should just accept what they say and leave?
Athrun: We'll have carpentaria apply some pressure, but if things aren't resolved quickly, we'll sneak in.

So, from that conversation, where do they debate a full-scale conquest? Zaft wouldnt attack Orb, as i said earlier, Orb was on good terms with Zaft (and has been until Destiny i belive) There was never any discussion about a full-scale Orb invasion in episode 25, only Yzak venting off his anger (like he usually does, he has a bad temper after all)

*Dearka is the one who wants them to " brute force " their way in, not Yzak, and he is quickly shot down by Athrun who reminds him that it wouldnt be like Heliopolis.

So you admit it is out of character then? If it doesn't make sense and common sense doesn't apply and it's shitty writing, then I'd say it's very clearly out of character.

its shitty writing, but atleast it made up a reason for Orb to act the way it did, The Seirans. If they didn't exist, i'd say it was out of characters, but since they do and they are actually given a small amount of developing (Power hungry, thinking alot about their own survival) it does make sense to see Orb act the way it does when they are in power.

But why is that? Like I said, Destiny does not show us that the Seirans ought to have the effect you're implying they did. But they do anyway. To me that's making Orb act out of character.

Exactly, they do, and that's all we have to go on. Somehow, they got a hand over Cagalli with the wedding, And with Cagalli gone Orb had noone to uphold their old ideals, except her Nana maybe?

Athrun is definitely higher in command than Yzak. Yzak even specifically said it himself when Athrun shot down his argument "That's a cool headed approach. I guess that's why you're in command". Just because he wasn't in on everything his father was doing doesn't mean he wouldn't have the experience and upbringing that being the son of a the leader would give him. I never said he had to have political power. Just a better grasp on military affairs and perspective.

Having knowledge doesnt make you higher in command, Athrun was put in charge of the Zala squad because he was the one with the best leadership qualities amongst Rau's squad, Yzak even said it himself, " That's a cool headed approach " Athrun doesnt make rash decisions, Yzak does.

You realise that everything you just said it something I could easily say to you right? So why aren't I? Because I'm sensible enough to realise it's not wise to come to conclusion about another person before the debate that determines whether you're right or not is finished.

I honestly don't care Raak, you are a sensible person, but you have forgotten/ignored some things about the show. like Athrun and Yzak arguing about invading orb when they clearly arent.

And fyi, I have a much stronger reason to have a negative opinion about you. Can you guess why?

Honestly, i couldn't care less if you have a positive or negative opinion about me, this is a internet forum, we're discussion a show. If you feel like i've personally insulted you by telling you to stop being a sore loser because you've forgotten certain aspects of a show, then it's up to you to take offense or not.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I can't speak for Amaterasu, but I'm well aware about the past of this thread. I occasionally kinda lurking lurking in it back then before becoming a member. That's why I said the recent arguments is getting better compared to, say, Macross Frontier thread where things are still being "uncivilized" even now (without mods' frequent intervention).

We can fix it. I'm Sorry to interrupt up but Destiny had the best mobile suit battles of all time! And Athrun could clearly shoot down Kira if he tried. - Kirye west