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Old 2013-01-20, 21:53   Link #11716
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Sorry, but I completely and absolutely fail to see how moving on to the bigger plot-points renders the other plot-points insignificant.

Zenkichi's victories were never supposed to be the climax of any arc(save the one), and I fail to see why you think the way you do, other than a gross over-analysis of the story, but hey, it's your opinion to have. I can respect it.
It's not just "moving on to bigger plot points". There are specific plot reveals after nearly every one of Zenkichi's achievements which act in a way to discredit or reduce the impressiveness of what he accomplished. Beating Munakata --> Munakata was trying his hardest not to kill anybody. Reaching Medaka II's heart/restoring her personality --> she used Yuzuhashi's mind-reading skill and Oudou's brain-washing skill. Killing Kumagawa --> Kumagawa was concealing that All-Fiction made him immortal/invincible. Etc. etc.

The point is not necessarily that Zenkichi's achievements have no meaning. However, one thing that is true about Medaka Box's narrative is that Nishio tends to tell the story as if Zenkichi is a main or important character (or that he did something important), only later to reveal that he isn't/didn't really. This is the main point to be made. Medaka Box/Nishio has a habit of pretending that Zenkichi is more impressive or important than he really is (and then deliberately bringing the story/readers back to reality).

Quote:
Does the musical battle of the bands not ring any bells here? After all, Devil Style is the reason a long-lost archenemy or a long-lost brother didn't appear to delay the election.
Instead, a relatively normal thing happened(one with a much higher probability). And this unnamed arch-enemy hasn't even met Zenkichi or Medaka yet because of the skill.

What I mean is, Devil Style's barriers are rather ambiguous, because it's definition is, too. Not going to say I'm right or you're wrong, but I got a different vibe from it's exposition.

One must remember Anshin'san's wording, after all.

"(...)My new world(...)"
Something happening with the battle of the bands wouldn't have delayed the election. The election was set during Winter Break in December, whereas the school cultural festival occurred early in November.

Also, the result "the performers with the most professional mindset appeared" isn't in itself something that actually has high probability. In fact, if you just picked a bunch of performers at random from a list like Medaka did, normally you would just get a bunch of average performers. It was hinted (more like, Zenkichi directly stated) that it was because it was Medaka picking them that she got the most highly skilled performers which made a huge success for the school cultural festival.

So in this sense, it's pretty clear that Devil Style did not interfere with Medaka's goals for the school festival (i.e. "have a highly enjoyable festival which makes the most people happy", I guess). I'm not sure what Ajimu exactly meant by saying that running into a long lost brother or archenemy "might" have happened, but I think that, if Zenkichi had been given traditional main character powers, those coincidences would have turned out in favour of Zenkichi. Like I dunno, that archenemy could've ended up seriously injuring/disabling Medaka, or awakening her dark side or something, thus giving Zenkichi an advantage in the elections. That might've been the idea.

In any case, the fact that Devil Style didn't effect Medaka's luck in causing her to draw the three most famous entertainment performers does pretty blatantly portray that Devil Style does not universally disable main character powers. Well, if this was not made clear enough by the continuing story from that point onwards anyway. So my main point, that there has never really been a reason to stop assuming Medaka is the main character, is still there.

Quote:
Well, let me put this as simply as possible.

Pre-Defeat Medaka: A pompous, self-absorbed, generally just unlikeable Mary Sue.

Post-Defeat Medaka: A pompous, self-absorbed, generally just unlikeable Mary Sue.

I honestly fail to see the point of Nishio's deconstruction of her Mary-Sueness to just repeat the same arc.
Medaka's "defeat" was not a deconstruction of anything except for her ideals of helping others. To be fair, that is a massive deconstruction of her character at the start of the series. As someone who initially thought that Medaka's goal of "turn Hakoniwa Academy into a field of flowers" was fucking retarded, that's a pretty huge deconstruction to me.

However, in the first place, Medaka was never a Mary Sue so she could be deconstructed. Rather, her Mary-Sueness is the deconstruction. By being a Mary Sue, Medaka deconstructs the shounen manga illusion that victory is about anything besides (main character) power. Ideals, effort, determination; none of that actually matters. It is the sheer injustice of simply being a main character, which grants you victory.

But beyond that, the story has long moved past the point of just harping about main characters. The entire "main characters == always win" theme was already finished by the end of Kumagawa's battle with her. At the present stage, Nishio is exploring the concepts of Ajimu--a being who is above main characters by being aware of Medaka Box as just a manga universe--and Iihiko, a being who is higher still.
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