[Captain Bluebeard]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

I understand what you mean, as most of it is speculation. However since no real proof exists in Umineko, "clues" are all we can use.

Okay, I will agree my wording was wrong here, since there's no real 'evidence' in Umineko. Regardless, there is still a huge difference between 'clues' and 'assumptions'. And as said in my previous post, most points of argument you've shown are only 'clues' if we are willing to make assumptions. None of it really is a 'narrative' hint which could provide your theory enough stability.

Also: Please provide an example for the following scenario:

How would Yasu act, if Battler came 1 year earlier?

I still see no alternative to my theory to explain what she would do if he fulfilled his promise "in time" yet, because "she cannot leave the island as Beatrice".

The hell.... Maybe I can't say for sure, but that's far from meaning Yasu is Ikuko.

One thing is sure: The duel wouldn't have come to a conclusive result yet, so her choice might have been a vastly different one.

Originally Posted by jjblue1

For who's interested in how the plot is developing as it's different from EP 8

Spoiler for Spoilers for Ep 8 chap 7:

We start with Kanon and Shannon talking among them. They're probably exchanging more or less the same talk they shared in the visual novel then we move back to Rudolf confessing the truth about Battler to Kyrie... while Ange is listening from behind the door.
Rudolf's drama as soon as he learns Asumu's baby is dead and Kyrie's is alive is more detailed... and there are references to Kinzo and Natsuhi... and we FINALLY see Asumu's face.
Ange hears what Rudolf did and her mind goes to Beato's declaration that Battler wasn't Asumu's son.
Maybe she suspected Beato learnt this from Genji as there's a pick that might represent Beato and Genji (the head are missing but the clothes seems to match).
We've some really, really cute flashbacks of Asumu/Battler moments also as Rudolf continues his tale then Kyrie breaks down crying in a really heartbreaking manner.
Ange sees her and run to hug her from behind, pretending she just found them and keep on hugging her until Kyrie smiles and pretend nothing is wrong.
Rudolf and Kyrie accept they were found and leave. As they do first Kyrie punches him, then hold on him as she's evidently still crying. He supports her.

It's an awesome scene even if you don't get a word of what they say.
Eva joins Ange and the two resume seaching for the others. They find Gohda (hiding in the kitchen a pot on his head) and Kumasawa, hiding under the cover of a bed.
Ange gives Kumasawa's back a massage and tells her something.

Then Ange and Eva enter in another room and find the corpses of Shannon and Kanon under a cover. They've blood dripping from their lips and there seems to be bleending holes on their shirts.
Eva is really worried they're dead but Ange, after a moment of shock, tickles them and they start laughing rather madly.
Eva is surprised then scold them, Shannon says something that only makes her angrier.
They pologize while Ange thinks that how they disguised themselves as dead on the gameboard.
They leave the room then Ange hears sound coming from behind a door (Hideyoshi's room?... anyway he's the one inside it...). They can't enter though as there's a chain on the door. Eva knocks without success while Ange thinks to a trick.

Kanon calls Hideyoshi from the door (likely telling him Eva and Ange gave up) so, Hideyoshi opens it. Needless to say Eva and Ange shows up to 'catch him'.

Meanwhile the storm started and Rosa is hidden with Maria in her old room that's... filled with dolls and plushie. Maria is happy with all that dolls while Rosa is nervous until incidentally she finds under the bed an old rabbit plushie all broken.

At first she tosses it away while Maria picks it up and cuddles it and she remembers that rabbit was actually hers. Basically for Rosa that rabbit was her own version of Sakutarou and she clung to it until her siblings broke it in front of her eyes.

She connects that memory with what she did to Sakutaro and cries then pick the rabbit and... have it talk with Maria. And after some hesitation Maria is all happy and makes friend with the rabbit. Then the two start playing together with the dolls and the rabbit under Eva and Ange's gaze.

It's really touching. Ah, so far I really love Ep 8 manga version.

EP8 manga version must be awesome.

Originally Posted by GreyZone

I forget to include it in my earlier post:

There is a huge difference between KnownNoMore's "Rose Symbolism" and the meaning of "Ikuko".

Using roses as a hint would be a device for the story that has nothing to do with the story itself and is just adressed at the reader.

Well, you got a point here, that's why I said 'almost', but anyway, using the NAME of all things as a piece of argument when you really don't have anything more solid than that boils down to the same thing.

The meaning of "Ikuko" is a whole different matter. In the Ikuko=Yasu theory, at some point Yasu would have to come up with a name for herself:

"Hmmm, how should I name myself?"

This is something that the character had to do herself. She chose the name herself. In the context of Ikuko=Yasu, it has a direct relation to the story. This is less of an "asspull" than the Ikuko=RandomStranger version which basicly claims:

"yea.... so her parents used the name 'many children' for her... and that seeming to be a parallel to Yasu? Meh just a coincidence".

Okay, first, to conclude all that just from the name is at best 'jumping into conclusions'. Hell, even if 'many children' is an awesome way to describe Yasu, it's not necessary that it is a metaphor that talks about her.

Or maybe it is. Maybe Ryukishi07 chose that name because Ikuko continues Yasu's tale by writing forgeries. That seems like a more natural conclusion that : "SHIT! Her name's meaning is kinda tracing back to her, they're the same person!". Reasoning of that level would be like saying "Shannon and Kanon have to be the same person! They look awfully similar and their names sound almost the same!".

You see? It doesn't really work this way, does it? That's what I mean when saying 'evidence'. The same point could have a vastly different effect if it was soemthing like "Shannon and Kanon have to be the same person! They're never seen together by anyone except servants who have an unreliable perspective!". Obviously we understand which of the two "proves" the point.