[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by VezSketch

Akiyoshi, have I talked to you on another forum?

I don't know but i think this will be the beginning of a loong friendship xDDD!!

I'll have a field day with this post xD!

Originally Posted by VezSketch

Nanoha could block Subaru and Teana's attacks without her device bare-handley under a limiter. Those two are stronger now, but Nanoha's physical strength (or high-tier or mid-tier mages in general) shouldn't be underestimated. The fact she can contend with Signum and Thoma (Thoma was much stronger while fighting Nanoha than he is currently) in physical combat puts her far above Subaru in physical strength.

Nanoha's hand was glowing, she wasn't blocking Subaru's hand with mere physical strenght in any way, she battle with Signum using RH's and barriers as support and battled Tohma while assisted by a moving floating mini-fortress, hardly feats of raw physical strenght xDU If Nanoha attempted to block Subaru's punches withouth using magic she'll probably end with broken fingers at best xDU

Originally Posted by VezSketch

The fact we didn't see them do anything additional to block those attacks isn't supporting evidence towards them in fact doing so. Blocking the attacks is a feat.

It's indeed a feat, the fact is that we don't have evidence about the kind of feat as we didn't see how they blocked the attacks xD. Isis have some excuse but Agito doeasn't there's nothing there to sugguest she should be even able to tank Tohma's Silver Hammer.

Originally Posted by VezSketch

Zafira's barrier was just a barrier, we have nothing indicating it was "special." You have no basis to claim otherwise. While Chrono's attack wasn't focused, it still wasn't enough power to destroy his barrier and that's all that matters in this case.

It is a special shield, in fact, it's called wheel protection and is pretty powerfull to deflect attacks, some of Chrono's blades amnage to go directly into Zafira's arm, tough.

Originally Posted by VezSketch

Like I said before, Nanoha is much stronger than Subaru. Fate is, too. Jet Zanber is comparable to Vita's Gigantform as shown in A's and is now used as a basic melee attack. Her riot forms of her Zanber were able to OHK Tre and Sette (these were S-Ranks ...) while under an AMF and is now something she's shown using in base (upgraded and stronger forms). Zest was able to break Graf Eisen in a compact gigantform (it should carry the same durability, but not power) and knocked Vita out of unison, knocking out Rein II. Her device was not damaged while hitting Reinforce's barrier in A's (this is something that's been estimated to be hundreds of meters and over millions of tons due to how big Reinforce's body was, Vita swung it to reach the Defense System in a fraction of a second. Being able to do that makes her ordinary physical attacks with a more compact Graf Eisen strong as hell - Vita in A's is definitely not as strong as Fate, Signum, Nanoha, and other high tier characters are currently. And Subaru is as strong as Vita never. That's the single most impressive direct physical feat we can scale in the series.).

And all of that they was achieved at their ultimate states of power (Fate's Shin Sonic form, Vita's finisher attack, Zest's limit break etc...) and putting all of their magical and physical power togheter. Also Fate's sowrd lacks weight becuase it's a lightblade which actually makes sense cause it works well with her high-speed fightstyle.

Originally Posted by VezSketch

Nothing impressive - the little girls in Vivid have more impressive feats that can be scaled to Subaru in StrikerS, like Einhalt destroying Corona's golem's fist with her physical strength, and then later destroying the entire golem. The Golem's made of rock and tens of meters in height. Rio's lift and toss of this rock (just eyeballing shows it's more than a hundred tons). Hari's breaking of said rock.

The ViVid girls are truly impressive but there's also somejustification. Einhart didn't break the golem with strenght alone, she caste and used a technique of her school of magically enhaced martial arts xDU As for Rio's case, i bet she enhaces her physical strenght somehow ...if not, then she's probably also physically stronger than most Section Six members. As no one of them have such a feat of Raw physical strenght. Until seeing further confirmation i'll agree on Rio being stronger than Subaru since i haven't see har doing something like that yet.

Originally Posted by VezSketch

Nanoha under a limiter was stronger than Subaru was during the events of StrikerS, anyway. And everyone and their mother could cleave through Gadget Drones like butter (best displayed by Nanoha, Fate, and Signum, actually - they did it much easier than people like Ginga and Subaru did). Also, Divine Buster was used to reach Quattro down below in the Cradle while under an AMF, its usage doesn't mean anything and can't be used as an argument to suggest Nanoha couldn't break the walls of the Cradle like Subaru.

Stronger overall, but not physically. The people cleaving gadgets drones does wielding devices who shoot or do enhaced meele attacks, Subaru is the only one who consistently rush trough them with punches and kicks, something no one else besides Ginga does.

Originally Posted by VezSketch

Sword Break is impressive, but not that much. Subaru is strong but not that strong.

Let's take into account that, for Sword Break to work Subaru first must hold still the blade in question. She has been able to stop flat the attacks of two VERY physically strong adversaries with the grip of her hand. And in an age where everyone is falling down like flies due to the Eclipse leaving their shields and barriers useless, Subaru is the only one who received equipement specifically designed to keep her as a cross-range fistfighter. That's some great confidence on her strenght and durability compared with everyone else who received upgrades that allow them to save face and keep some distance from EC Drivers on the battlefield (Strike Cannon and Ochstan beign guns, Fortrss mode, Signum's shooting shield, War Hammer's long plasma pile, etc).

Originally Posted by VezSketch

Also note Quinn didn't even scratch Cypha with the same method, Fate left Cypha with damage (Signum was damaging Cypha with several hits) and without getting hit in a fight. One attack from Cypha went through Quinn. Fate is much stronger than Quinn just like Cypha. It's also notable Fate was the only one on her side with the upper hand against her opponent in their tag match on Esquad, lol.

Because of one of Cypha's powers is specifically to be hard as hell. She also understand very well hoe EC energy works so she might be able to counter the effect of Quinn's attack (Cypha was explaining the nature of the attack as she seems to disperse some energy near the attackzone on her neck).

Quinn is able to cut trough AEC-Equipement like nothing so that's a REALLY bad omen for Signum if she tries to fight her.

I wonder when Fate got an "upper hand in battle" xDU. So far she has been fought Cypha who gives her an even fight and Deville who managed to hold her at bay without breaking a sweat once he reacted. Well, you can say she got an "upped hand" on the Bible of the Silver Cross with that surprise Jet Zamber to the face xD

Originally Posted by VezSketch

Yeah, but then you have Thoma cleaving through Nanoha's Fortress Shields and she was fighting with him without going all out (she wasn't trying to beat him down, wasn't using her more powerful spells, no blaster bits or system, etc. No way she was operating with full power). Base DeVille was not on par with Fate (that would also suggest he could match a Reacted Cypha) and because of his quick transformation, we don't how he would've fared in a fight with her.

The reason why Nanoha didn't used blaster system, blaster bits, or her other array of attack it's simply because she know they're useless against Tohma ...or any other EC Driver for that matter. Cypha's trashing of Signum left clearly stated that pure magic based attacks doesn't have ANY effect on an EC Driver whatsoever. Divine Buster, Strike Stars Assault, Excelion buster and other attacks are nothing more than a colorful pink flashlight show under Eclipse conditions. Nanoha fought using the attacks of her AEC-Weaponry, attacks that, unlike her usual magic, lack a "stun" setting, Strike Cannon's and Fortress Attacks provoke very real damage, damage that fortunately Tohma was able to shrug off due to a powerfull regeneration power.

I can't see why you say Deville is lacking in physicall strenght when we saw him fending off Fate's attacks without problem.

Originally Posted by VezSketch

They would.

With properly upgraded Graf Eisen and Laevatein maybe. But their AEC-Equipements don't have the resillence required to withstand Quinn's attacks. Both are also ignorant of how Quinn's attacks work which culd make them victims of grievous harm at the beginning of the fight.

Originally Posted by VezSketch

Non EC Driver opponents can block them ... as we've seen. Not being able to block an attack because of anti-magic also says nothing.

The only thing that bolqued Quinn's attack besides an EC-Driver was Caro's fortress shield which got promtly destroyed for it's troubles xDU

Originally Posted by VezSketch

Yeah. Being able to be scaled as powerful as Arf is impressive because of Arf's feat on the Garden of Time when she blasts a hole (since the Garden of Time has been estimated to be massive, the size of the rocks she made fly in a fraction of a second were pretty big. Kinetic energy and all) to escape Precia.

Nothing against Arf, cause i think she's awesome. But Subaru is probably more powerfull than her on the overall scale ...saves for the lack of flight powers. Suabru have short range but incredible destructive power. Her Divine Buster attack is a very powerrfull antipersonel attack and her attacks enhaced with her I.S. "Oscillating Breaker" become devastating to anything they touch.

Originally Posted by VezSketch

Nanoha wasn't operating with full power like I mentioned above and the intent wasn't to defeat Thoma in combat. Thoma did shrug off the damage but the attacks she used on him can't be compared to spells like Strike Stars, Exelion Buster, SLB, etc. I do have to say it was impressive he could withstand the heat of a plasma beam, though. Subaru saving Nanoha doesn't make her anymore impressive, Thoma would've destroyed her.

As i've said all the spells you've mentioned are utterly useless against any EC Driver by their mere nature as "spells" xDU Eclipse power don't block magical attacks, it nullyfies them, regardless of how powerfull those are. If you want to comment about Hayate's Heimdall, the attack was only effective because Hayate was using magic to gather physical mass and achieve a physical effect. Most Nanoha's attacks lacks such property, the only cannon attack of that nature she have is Stadust Fall which isn't very powerfull and cannot be performed while fighting Tohma over the ocean anyway xDU

Tohma do probably had been destroyed Subaru at the end but at the moment she still had better fighting chances against him than Nanoha or Vita.

Originally Posted by VezSketch

Breaking steel isn't impressive in the Nanoha universe and Base DeVille could not break the necks of everyone in Section Six, he hasn't even been proven to be as strong as the more powerful members.

Most characters who break steel do it aided by magic or other enhacing effect, character like Devile and Subaru can do that with raw physical strenght. I really doubt Vita could punch trough steel, much less Nanoha or Fate.

Originally Posted by VezSketch

She's probably fight in chapter 40 in like 2 years.

Heh, when Curren appears, butts are kicked, no questions xD