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Old 2011-10-24, 11:38   Link #25307
Renall
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Join Date: May 2009
I don't think that's really the problem. You act like people are stupid and didn't see his twists. Shit, I remember somebody basically guessing Shkanon exactly as it was around the time of ep4 (before ep5 was even out at all). And the Japanese (and then shortly thereafter several people here) effectively solved the epitaph. Pretty much all the answers Ryukishi had to offer were answers that had plenty of exposure.

The issue wasn't that people somehow couldn't reconcile it at the time with facts or something in the actual text. People did. People "got it." It's just that, almost universally, everyone couldn't reconcile all aspects of the idea because something or other felt off about it. Nearly everyone conceded that things could be the way they (more or less) actually turned out to be, but practically no one was satisfied with it. It isn't because they somehow didn't get something. It was precisely the getting it where Ryukishi failed to actually make things coherent, comprehensible, and care-worthy.

A few years and some pity party gap-filling later, and a handful of people are willing to accept it (I would argue due to retcons and pandering, but I'm not going past that declaration right now). After four episodes of rehabilitation. And a bunch of people still don't. Not because they're not open to the ideas, but because the ideas were blindingly obvious but were dismissed as being too stupid to entertain openly.

Your mystery elitism is failing you here, haguruma. This has nothing to do with that. Ryukishi isn't clever, he isn't a good mystery writer, he's sure as hell not a good romance writer, and the only reason the book hadn't been closed on him two years before he closed it himself is because (1) nobody thought he would actually consider his twists a good idea and thus assumed they were missing something that would make the work actually good, and (2) he lied solely to stir up contrarian debating that would guarantee his readers didn't reach consensus too quickly.

EDIT: And just to be clear, anyone calling anything Ryukishi did in Umineko "novel" is simply incorrect. He offers no new approaches and employs no new techniques, and the only new perspective he offers is into his own extremely messed-up notions of romance and morality. I wouldn't even bet on him being the first person to write a disappointingly gimmicky mystery-romance with meta-fictional elements.
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