[FFTHEWINNER]

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

It is interesting and fun to read your theories and thoughts, but it is difficult to have a discussion if you already know the solution to the mystery.

Edit: I have put a post in the "[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations" thread to let people know your thread exist and you want to have some spoiler free discussions here.



Actually it is a game, you have just given up on seeing it as a solvable mystery.

Ryukishi, the writer seem to have realized after Episode 2 that he made Episode 2 too difficult for a lot of readers. as a response he scrapped his original scenario for episode 3 and wrote an easier one. Episode 3 will also give you an important clue in how to tackle the mystery/game. Knowing this clue will make it easier to start seeing Uminkeo as a solvable mystery/game again.

The first half of Umineko (Epsiode 1-4 ) will present the mystery and the second half (Epsidoe 5-8) will teach you how to unravel the mystery.

Umineko was actually conceived to be tackled with an (online) community. As a single reader it will be very difficult to figure out the whole mystery. This doesn't mean that it won't be possible, but it can be a challenge.

first,glad that you are enjoying my theories,and thanks for your post there . for the record,i am an Otoku,so"He",but i would rather be called FFTHEWINNER or simply FF

you actually missunderstood my post. i never stopped thinking or gave up on the mystery aspect.not even once. in fact,many of my old theories (the"furniture",the"two beatrices",etc)were so far proven correct,barring any surprise announcements. yes,beatrice the supernatural being/witch exists,but the epitaph clearly states that the killer is the one who finds the key not her. it even specifically says"the holder of the key shall..."and in the 1st twilight"YOU will...".
so there is clearly a murderer/s. as for my complete theory on all the murders before the 9th twilight(in the 9th twilight the witch is revived.everything after that is done by her),i heard that chapter 3 is where lots of stuff that is necessary to solve the mysteries is revealed,so i will wait until i finish it before i make a complete theory .

as for my"Not a game"comment,i was actually talking about how hard it is to say that any linear visual novel,not just umineko,is a"game",as for something to be classified as a "game" it has to be interactive. you must have the ability to make actions that lead to you winning or losing the game. normal Visual Novels have that interactivity in the dialog choices,but in Linear Visual Novels no kind of interactivity exists. you are pretty much reading a book with a casette tape playing lol. that is why i was saying that it is hard to say that umineko is a "game" .
also,i greatly enjoy having abundant dialog choices,as it makes me feel like i truly am the MC,so there is that as well

with that being said:

havent continued reading yet,but thought i'd make a post about a few things i was thinking of

-first,i have been listening to the full,subbed,umineko game song:

https://youtu.be/roVlnja8u-w?t=1m54s

and a line really caught my attention. it is said right after the portion of the song that is included in in the game's opening ends(link takes you right to it):

"In The dancing wings of butterflies,dreams and reality come and go".

this line gave me an evolution of a theory i had.
i mentioned before that ep2's tea party might be a hallucination that beatrice inflicted on rosa and battler. using this line as a hint,we can evolve our pokemon(theory) and say that beatrice's butterflies have a hypnotizing effect that makes the victim see whatever she wants him to say.
most of the murders begin with butterflies. in said murders,what we are seeing IS indeed what the victims(or at least one of them,as the visions might be different for each person) are seeing,but what they are seeing is a hallucination decided by beatrice while the real killer/s does his job with no problems or resistances. after all,while beatrice isnt the killer/s,she and the killer/s have a common interest in him succeeding,as that is how she will be revived.
of course,the problem with this theory is"fake kanon",as no butterflies were involved until he died,and that prevents me from fully adapting this theory. still,i think that line must be a big hint,and this is the best way to explain it in my opinion.
also,the song focuses on the themes of love,forgiveness,and wanting what is currently unreachable. those themes very much fit my aforementioned theory about"old good-Human-New bad beatrices",so that is good


-Thought i'd post my thoughts/ratings of the characters currently,as it would be pretty interesting to look at my thoughts when i finish the game and see how much they changed . i will be giving them a rank out of 10,then explain why. feel free to share how you thought about the characters when you were in my place(AKA when you only finished what i finished) too guys,as the differing opinions would be interesting to compare .

-Natsuhi: 10/10. best person in the game and it is not even close. i gushed about her already,so i will simply say that she is the perfect wife and i fully agree with what kinzo said about her(though i would have allowed her to wear the damn eagle,although i think who wears the eagle has a symbolic meaning that hasnt been revealed. kinzo's blood(as in,his real blood that flows in his family) is most likely"special"in someway in regards to magic,and only servants who wear the eagle are the ones summoned by him).

-Kinzo: 9/10 or 1/10,depending on weather my aforementioned theory about him and beatrice is true or not. if not true then he would be by far the most two dimensional and paper cut character in the entire game and you could sum his entire existence with one phrase("mad guy who we heard was once smart"). if my theory is true however then he would be how i believe he is:Multi faceted,extremely smart and cunning,neither mad nor weak,and my favorite character in the game.

-Rosa: 2/10. a very paranoid and abusive woman with no redeeming qualities. goes into fits at the slightest provocation,doesnt even try to understand her own daughter,takes violence as the 1st choice instead of the last choice,hurts her child's psyche for life.when in power automatically assumes that all are out to get her. i especially hate such a character as my relative IRL is very similar,and i have seen first hand what that did to his children.

-Eva:1/10. the apparently obligatory"strong woman who can do anything a man can but was treated unfairly because of her gender". truly worthless character who i wish would disappear anytime she is onscreen. a game with"shotgun eva"is a game i am likely to skip a lot of lol.
on a side note,when eva was talking about her"paper theory"in episode 1,i found it incredibly weird that no one asked HER for proof that the f***ing thing even existed. we have no proof at all that such a paper existed,and why would it exist on the 1st place?no one was murdered at the time eva allegedly put it,so why would eva put it? i am willing to bet money that such a paper never existed. however,that doesnt necessarily mean that eva was the murderer,as the differences between her and natsuhi clearly run deeper than natsuhi simply being crauss's wife,so it could be that eva fabricated the story just out of hatred for natsuhi,or to see her reaction because she genuinely believed she was the killer.

-Hideoshi: 7/10. very underdeveloped."The Nice and cool uncle"is pretty much all his character is so far,which is why points were deducted. rating is still high because he works well in that rule,but i would still like to see him get developed more(for example,a back story on his childhood and what he thought when eva wanted him to let go of his family's name).

-Rudolf: ?/10.died in the 1st twilight in both episodes and didnt do much before,so dont have enough info to judge. seems to me like he is caring on the inside and loves battler but doesnt show it(possibly because of complexes in his childhood). also,very sarcastic,which i like

-Kyrie: 8/10. smart,calm,and calculating. all things i like. not that much developed though,so points taken for that and for giving up in episode 2,which annoyed me as she was battler's idol pretty much in his way of thinking. heard that episode 3 will explore her more,so my opinion might change relatively quickly on this one lol XD

-Krauss: 3.5/10. clearly smart and sarcastic,which i like. but the bad outweighs the good. takes his father's money without his father's consent,treats the best wife one can have as if she doesnt matter,doesnt defend the honor of his own wife,Hypocrite.

-Nanjo: ?/10. while we see him a lot he is incredibly undeveloped. i cant even make any comments as so far he is simply"Kinzo's doctor friend".
on a side note,i suspect him a lot because of his "turn"comment(as i explained in a previous post).

-Jessica: 6/10. average character all around. template"teenager in a rural area"to the T. additional point for her interactions with battler and Dem Oppai

-Kanon: 7.5/10. good character with plenty of depth and very loyal. however,his hatred runs way too deep and makes him out to be unlikable at times(like in his first interaction with battler)

-Genji: 8.5/10. the perfect servant and perfectly complements Kinzo,but points deducted because we still dont know much about him at all. he is clearly far deeper than how he first appears though.

-George: ?/10. like Nanjo,we still dont know much about him despite how long we spent with him(though to a far lesser degree). he is"too perfect",with not a bad trait to be found. that and his ominous comments and how he defends the parents greed makes me feel he is a culprit in at least a few murders.

-Shannon: 8/10. a pretty good character. honest.great at work(with just a little bit of the Klutz that makes her more moe .and Dem Oppai. however,her being the cause of the murders when she broke the mirror and how mentally weak she is normally makes me deduct some points.

-Gohda: 7.5/10. for a character who clearly doesnt matter and is there just to add numbers,he has some surprising depth.still,him being an a****** to the other servants and a lazy bum normally doesnt work in his favor lol.

-Kumasawa: ?/10. up there with Nanjo in terms of under developness. also somewhat suspicious based on the old mystery rule of"old nice people are usually bad"lol,and on her being truly mysterious in every way.

-Maria: 9.5/10. a very intriguing character with many layers. right after beatrice and and battler in plot focus(and,coincidentally,in this list's order lol)and definitely deserves it. even her "Uu"isnt annoying in the game(but was one of the many things the anime butchered up lol. a side point but i checked out the 1st episode of the anime a while ago and fully understand why it is considered one of the worst adaptations of all time lol >_>)

-Battler: 8.5/10. pretty enjoyable,and at times smart,but at other times completely incompetent.if he wasnt the main character i would have rated him lower,but"main character bias"forces me to rate him high

-Beatrice: 10/10. the perfect villain. perfectly intriguing. incredibly evil at times and sympathetic in other. incredibly multi layered. smart but makes mistakes. truly great.