[Vexx]

Originally Posted by tripperazn

I don't know who they are, but Wikipedia says that if they were alive today, both Abbott and Costello would be well over 100 years old. So, I guess the veracity of your point rests on how recent you consider "recent years" to be. Granted, I'm not a big fan of the American comedy scene, but I don't remember ever seeing a duo in my lifetime.

Well, in America there is plenty of access to 20th Century classics (cable channels, etc), so there's really no barrier to access. Have you heard of the Marx Brothers? They hail from a few decades before. Sonny&Cher? The Smothers Brothers? (each had a variety show in the '70s that was a pretty classic manzai act).
Okay, but if you're not familiar with American comedy, be wary of saying something is "alien" or "unapproachable" by Americans

That was kind of my point, the goal is to convey the original meaning to those unfamiliar with the culture and language, which often involves changing the wording or phrasing. Japanese relies much more on subtext and is just generally an indirect language that depends on context. Often, context needs to be restated every now and then in English and a strong, pronounced point made in naturally indirect Japanese needs to be intensified directly in English.

What you're describing is what "localization" should be -- ibeing "truer" to the source material by using the tools in the local language to convey the intent. The problem I encounter too often is that what is labeled "localization" often *changes* the intent or flavor of the original meaning -- sometimes to the point where you're wondering whether someone's personal ego is overriding the ego-less goal of channeling the creator's product.
Actually changing the entirety of a piece of dialog or inserting a gag where no such hilarity existed in the original line.
Imaginary example, "ohayo"-->"good morning"-->"hey, hows it going"-->"wassup, bitches!" The last one might be funny and "localized" but... it wasn't there in the original. My shorthand gag for it is the "donuts and candy" the "localized" Pokemon characters thrive on (mochi, nigiri, and vendor stand foods).

Saying that "too localized" is like "What's Up, Tiger Lilly?", is like saying "too literal" makes you no better a translator than Babelfish.

Except that Babelfish makes frequent literal mistakes (especially with kanji readings) - not a great analogy. A literal translation would accurately replace the words and simply restructure the grammar --- but would miss any idiom, proverb, or implicit punnery.

I feel like we mostly agree what a translation *should* be ... but we may vary on how we perceive the term "localization". I've seen it used more often than I'd like as an excuse for translators to insert their own ideas into a translation. When I'm viewing a show about Japanese people in Japanese places .... I rather expect to hear the honorifics, the right names for food, even the appropriate idioms (most people aren't idiots and most japanese idioms aren't incomprehensible). Puns are definitely tougher to deal with and sometimes a creative interpretation or footnote may be necessary (manga translations resort to this in the appendix at times).

Right now I'm thinking of translating (or helping to translate) Ookami to Koushinryou ... and one of the bigger head scratches is how to convey the main character Horo's style of speech. Its important to her character definition but its an Edo-period courtesan style -- not simple to convey the inherent "classy erotic flirtiness" in English, either by dialect/accent or by adding words