Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block
Ha? Whether Iwasawa knew she was gonna disappear or not is up to speculation. However, whether she knew or not, she never wavered in the slightest althroughout that episode. The reason why she was not "caught in the moment" is precisely this. If you hadn't already noticed, being "caught in the moment" implies a change of heart (varying degrees). Allow me to repeat: If you didn't know what you were trying to avoid, you're just being engrossed in the activity. In engrossment, from your perspective, everything is going according to plan. Thus, we could say that Iwasawa was engrossed in singing My Song.
|
I already told you that it’s unfair to say Iwasawa wanted it whilst Hinata didn’t just because Hinata denied he was going to disappear when Iwasawa didn’t have the luxury responding to a question like that. If you want to challenge that then you have to prove that Iwasawa knew she was gonna disappear. It may not be what you were trying to prove before but it’s what the argument comes down to. If you can’t prove that then you can’t prove it your way rather than mine.
I already told you I’m going by a different definition. I don’t care much for yours and you’ve given me no reason to either. I already explained to you why she never wavered the slightest in my viewpoint. Just so you know, it doesn’t count as ‘evidence’ if i can do that.
Quote:
As for your "factors", look at it this way: no matter how large a number you imagine can be, it'll still be a far cry from infinity.
|
....what? Well the fact is that using your ‘human logic’, Hinata shouldn’t have been ‘caught in the moment'. It’s your own logic, you know. You were the one who suggested that Yuri ought to be Hinata's first priority and that their relationship is such an extent that him disappearing would have Yuri lonely all over again. If that's the case then it naturally follows then his relationship would be strong enough to prevent him from being 'caught in the moment', because he would consider what him disappearing might mean to Yuri. But he didn't. According to you he deceived himself into thinking he won't disappear simply for the sake of winning the game. How does that make sense? If he really cares about Yuri that much then naturally he would consider the possibility of disappearing very bad indeed. How on earth does simply 'wanting to win the game' override that? Doesn't that mean that 'winning the game' must have meant a lot to him (which is exactly what i'm thinking).
Quote:
Right...
|
You’re taking it out of context. The first quote was me talking about Hinata during chapter 3. I explained to you that at the time he simply didn’t have the willpower to go through with disappearing and THEN decided to stick with Yuri all the way. It was not a matter of which was first priority to Hinata. The second quote was me talking about Hinata when he was trying to catch the ball. At that point it was bout priority and it turned out that he cared more about finding inner peace. There is no contradiction.
Quote:
You're still ignoring one very important question. Do you know which one it is?
|
Nope. Guess I’m not ignoring it. In fact it's probably something i've already addressed...
Quote:
It is an important factor. Try to look at the big picture: why would he continue playing to win if he doesn't want to win?
|
1) Did I say he didn’t want to win? No. He probably wanted to win but my point is that his want to win shouldn’t have been strong enough to go to such lengths as to actually deceive himself into thinking this wasn’t a serious situation, in order to win.
2) Exactly. There is no other explanation. Other than the idea that he wanted to win, which as I already pointed out, makes no sense at all (once again, you haven't actually given anything to deny that). Therefore the assumption that he actually meant it when he said he wasn’t going to disappear must be wrong.
3) He continued playing because deep down, he did want to find inner peace. Considering that’s what I’ve been trying to tell you for the past week or so it’s a little irritating that you weren’t even able to grasp the basic point of my argument.
Look. As we've already established, according to your logic there are two factors going inside Hinata's head at the time;
1) Hinata's relationship with Yuri.
2) His desire to win the game
You seem to think my argument is that Number 2 must be wrong. That's not actually the case. My argument is that if Number 2 is right (because you keep saying Number 2 must be right.) then Number 1 must be wrong, and if Number 1 is right then Hinata would have never been 'caught in the moment' in the first place because there would've been no oppurtunity for him to be 'caught in the moment'. But as we know, Hinata did continue and got 'caught in the moment'. That must mean that number 2 is right. But as we've established, if number 2 is right then Number 1 is either wrong or not very strong at all. If that's the case, then Number 1 can not possibly be Hinata's true self, especially if something as simple as wanting to the win the game is enough to override it (remember we're talking about Hinata before he's caught in the moment and supposedly trapped in the stimulator)
Quote:
Nope. It's fallacious to take that as an argument. It's a simple definition of terms, akin to stating that an apple cannot be an orange because it does not fit the definition of an orange. The argument concerns the determination of Hinata's true self, which you should already be pondering through my question paragraph.
|
“X is his true self.” is not a definition of terms. It is an assumption that we’re are currently debating. In fact you just said it yourself, so you're contradicting yourself, now.
Quote:
You missed my point. Read my post again. Follow the links. I should not be spoonfeeding this.
|
How am I missing the point? I told you we were already discussing that point and we WERE. We still are above, actually. How have I missed anything when we’re already talking about it?
Quote:
You're not very attentive, are you? All expressions and gestures matter, especially for Kuuderes.
|
Facial expressions: Yes. Gestures: Yes.
A lack of facial expression?: No.
She hasn’t shown much facial expression throughout the entire show. So it’s ridiculous to say a lack of facial expression means something when it doesn’t. A lack of facial expression doesn’t mean anything for a Kuudere.
Quote:
Anyway, I'm tired of this rather pointless debate. Now, you're even twisting my definition of "caught in the moment". Perhaps you need to read it again? Anyway, you seem to know of XKCD (if you didn't, take a look at it -- it's where the comic you posted came from), so I suggest you take your time, learn some science, and get a feel of how the universe is entirely predictable due to universal laws. And please, stop ignoring evidence. Some of your rebuttals to my claims can be simplified to this.
|
1) I said quite specifically “Fine, use whatever terminology you feel like using. The point is that whatever happened to Iwasawa, she didn't see it coming. Just stick to that point.” Do I care about your definitions? No. They are not relevant to the point. Even if I am twisting it (and I'm probably not) it still won't change the fact that it's irrelevant anyway.
2) Great. So you ignore my point that character interpretation =/= world viewpoint and how Psychology of the human mind isn’t as straightforward and predictable as logic and other sciences, right after accusing me ignoring your points without telling me what it is I'm ignoring. And then literally add insult to injury. Just brilliant. By the way, how much of Psychology have you studied? I may have stopped studying it academically in college two years ago but I’ve still retained a healthy interest in it. What about you?
3) You then, tell me I’m ignoring evidence without telling me what it is I’m ignoring. I don't know why you think simply telling me I'm ignoring your points when it seems obvious to me that it's you who's been ignoring my points (in fact, almost every single point you made above is this. The difference is that I can actually tell you what it is you're ignoring). It just makes you look arrogant more than anything else. Just to reiterate: It doesn’t count as evidence if I can explain it in my own viewpoint. Which is exactly what I’ve been doing.