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Old 2013-02-24, 13:24   Link #310
Join Date: Feb 2008
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
It wouldn't be a quick solution, but it is a doable one. I'd tax gas to put a subsidy on electric cars to make easier to get one. I don't foresee everyone getting an electric car the next day. But after 10-15 years? I'd begin seeing electric cars being the norm.
There is already a $7,500 subsidy on EVs right now, and they're still in the realm of the rich and well-to-do (at least the ones that are capable of any range). Your vision is extremely optimistic, and I'm not sure you really grasp what's needed for EVs to replace ICE vehicles. There would need to be massive improvements in battery technology, and an overhaul of the entire US electric infrastructure. Plugging in a few recharge stations here and there is cute, it's a different story if you want to jack tens or hundreds of millions of EVs.

For example, California can barely keep itself powered during the summer(and indeed failed to do so on many occasions, and had to resort to rolling blackouts). How do you think the region's energy grid will respond to the energy demand that are being supported by fossil fuels dumped onto its head?

Perhaps because I live near Seattle, but there are charging stations all over. Tesla is putting them in for free. Shopping centers and parking garages have them, and a very few restaurants are beginning to get them. No longer does one need to go to an actual filling station... your car is "refueled" for free while you are doing other things. I know charging stations are being installed in the northeast US as well, and right now fueling is free!
It IS because you live there. Tesla is installing charging stations in very select regions to showcase the technology and where their potential costumers are (you won't see them building any charging stations in Wisconsin anytime soon). There are currently barely over 5,000 charging stations in the entire US, as opposed to over 110,000 gas stations. A gas station can also serve a significantly higher number of vehicles than a comparable charging station, as it takes only a few minutes to refuel a car as opposed to the hours it'd take to charge up a single EV.

One thing people also don't realize about electric cars: not only is fuel free at the moment (or cheaper than gas), but maintenance is incredibly cheap as well. Electric cars have much fewer moving parts. So, for a larger up front cost in buying the car (which you can pay off over a number of months), you are saving money in gas AND maintenance!
Try years and you'll be closer. The battery pack also don't last forever, and their replacement cost certainly is anything but cheap.

When you take those into consideration, electric cars are very affordable nowadays.
I'm sorry, but have you actually done the math or looked into it as a serious buyer? Because I just went through all the nitty-gritty details a few weeks back while helping my sister to decide between a Mazda 3 and a Volt. Even with the majority of the travel covered by the battery, it'd still take FIVE YEARS for the Volt to break even with the Mazda 3.

Sounds like poor public planning.
Poor or not, it's how cities and population centers in the US have evolved in the past hundred years.

We might analyze why you are so against anything but gas-powered cars, but I suppose we can let the post speak for itself.
Oh FFS, I'm really getting sick and tired of your innuendos and mudslinging. Point out where I'm "so against anything but gas-powered cars", PLEASE, DO IT, I'LL WAIT. Are you unable to discuss anything without making it personal?

I like EVs, I think it's the way of the future. In fact, I was the one that suggested the Volt to my sister since I think it fits her driving profile well. But just because I like the technology and see its potential, doesn't mean that I can't see its limitations and drawbacks, and what obstacles it must overcome before widespread adaptation is practical.

But I guess that makes me "so against anything but gas-powered cars", you're amazing.

Europe manages to do it with trains. Japan has the best network in the world. I always find it amusing when people say "it can't be done!" and yet we have tons of other countries in the world that have managed to do it.
Europe have nearly three times the population of the US, in an area that is roughly the same (4.0 vs 3.7 mil square mile), Japan's size speaks for itself, so is the size of its debt, at over twice its entire GDP.

I'm not against trains or public transportation, but don't accuse others of mindlessly saying things can't be done, while you're seemingly ignoring just about every single obstacles that implementing such a system would face in the US.

You're free to look at the IRS's data yourself. I actually got a $370,000 elsewhere, but this is more accurate and says $380,000. If you think their data is wrong, you can take it up with them. And unless my computer's calculate has a bug, 1,400,000 x 370,000 = 518,000,000,000. But if we think there is an error somewhere, how about we drop a 0 for $51.8 trillion. Or two zeros, for $5.18 trillion. Deficit is still long gone.

But just for the sake of argument, let's look at some other numbers up there. The top 5% includes 7 million people, who make an average of $160,000 a year.

7,000,000 x 160,000 = 1,120,000,000,000

You probably don't believe your eyes again, and even if we drop a 0, we're still left with $1.12 trillion. Deficit is now gone, leaving us with a surplus.
Kaiji, Kaijo, Kaijo, are you serious? Did you not read the multiple posts by other people after mine that pointed out your mistake? I know you didn't really pay attention to my post, or else you would've seen the discrepancies. I don't know what scale you're using, as you're neither using short or long, or any recognizable scale. But, as multiple posts have already pointed out that the number being used is these reports is in SHORT SCALE.

As in one trillion = 1,000,000,000,000. That's a 1 followed by TWELVE zeroes. Your "518 Trillion", or 518,000,000,000? it is 518 BILLION in short scale, not even 1 trillion.

When they say the US debt is 16.5 trillion, with annual deficit of 1.1 trillion? they meant $16,500,000,000,000 and $1,100,000,000 ok? Basically your trillion is our billion, and our trillion would be your... I have no idea actually, as you're going even "shorter" than short scale, I guess you're using some sort of special numbering system? Here's a chart with some handy numbers for future reference

You're not just making a mistake of a zero here, you're making both with one AND four zeroes, as your numbers are all over the place even within your own post:

you claim that 518 followed by 9 zeroes is 518 trillion (actual: 518 billion), and then two sentences later you claim that 112, again followed by 9 zeroes, would be 1.12 trillion (actual: 112 billion). It's still wrong, but I suppose at least you're closer in that case.

If only my bank teller process my deposits the same way, I would love to put in $1,000 and have it counted as a million

Last edited by kyp275; 2013-02-24 at 14:10.
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