[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by White Silver King

Have you not read anyone's responses? It is, in fact, not a grey road. At all. There have literally been pages of evidence by several posters that give nearly incontrovertible evidence that without his pre-positioned clones, his previous knowledge of Pain's techniques, his constant healing by Tsunade, Hinata's intervention in Pain's near slaughter of Naruto, and Minato's sealing of the Kyubi Naruto would have lost that fight. At best, he was a little weaker. No one is denying that Naruto is strong, he is very strong, especially with his new cloak. And the Hidan/Kakuzu example was completely different and irrelevant example (something I've noticed you put out quite a lot). They don't work together in desperation, they are permanent team members who work towards a common goal - the same cannot be said for Naruto and his helpers in the Pain fight.

yea i haven't read anyone's responses... you sure seem not to have read mine. people are helped constantly during fights throughout the entire series. that doesn't mean that the people who are helped are weaker than their opponents. sometimes it's true, sometimes it isn't, it's not a cause/effect relationship

And the manga disagrees with you. It was said (possible twice IIRC) that had Jiraiya known as much of Pain's abilities that Naruto did, he wouldn't have lost. Even with that example aside, info on your enemy is obviously EXTREMELY important and can most certainly tip the scales in one side's favor.

please read the topic of this thread. knowledge has nothing to do with strength. i've been saying that over and over. i never said naruto's knowledge didnt help him beat pain. it clearly did. if you read my posts you would know that you wouldn't have to say that. again, it has nothing to do with power. think about it for a second instead of impulsively responding with predetermined suppositions.

Preparing for battle and training are two entirely separate things. Do you consider putting a landmine with a remote trigger under where your opponent is going to be standing before the battle starts "training"? No, it's preparing for the battle before-hand, something that gives a testament to intelligence but not to raw power and strength.

thanks captain obvious. your point is what?

I'm trying to be mean here, but if you can see the difference I have to chock it up to the fact that you physically cannot see weakness in Naruto. The difference is blatant and has been explained to you multiple times.

why are you trying to be mean. i wouldn't even have thought it if you didnt say it... lol anyway, as ive also said before, i dont think naruto is the strongest. not even right now in the story. im saying sm naruto was stronger than pain at that time and it is proven in countless ways. just read my posts since you clearly havent

What we (well, at least I) are trying to establish here is if you put SM Naruto and Pain in a giant box with both their memories of each other's abilities wiped, absolutely no outside interference, and no pre-planning - Pain would win. I honestly don't see how, plot purposes aside, you can argue that to be different.

i've already addressed this exact thing and said i was on the fence. its a completely hypothetical scenario. bottom line is that in the manga (the real story) sm naruto beat all 6 paths of pain