[ChocoBar9]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

You are trivializing his emotional state by using your own sense judgment instead of using the context of the story.

The context of the story is saying that Shu is wrong and that the characters that were trying to help him weren't wrong in calling him out. The story pull no punches in showing that Shu was losing his mind and wouldn't listen to anyone

Originally Posted by Sinestra

The only time others tried to comfort Shu was right after the incident with Hare.

We do not know how much time past since Hare's death after episode 15 and generally that can only support my claim that he saw comfort in Inori because she wouldn't talk back to him or make him snap out of it

Originally Posted by Sinestra

When he was in a Rage you can not calm someone who is in a blind rage and so overcome with grief they close their hearts off. It takes time. Inori in the past was more doll like, have yo not noticed the change in her personality as time has progressed.

There's been no change to speak of, you're either watching a different show where Inori actually has had development worth a damn or deluding yourself otherwise.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Ironically it seems the more emotion she develops the more Mana comes out. Inori DOES help Shu by soothing his mind by allowing him to vent his frustrations and say aloud what he can not say in front of others. "She is only there for his self esteem wrong" wrong again mate she is there because she choose to be, she is there because she cares for Shu and yes she is good for his self esteem and its needed for reasons i should not need to explain

Re-read my post, she is there for Shu's self-esteem, she is not trying to get Shu put of his funk, what she feels is irrelevant to what I was trying to convey. She is no different from a doll Shu needs to talk to help him feel better about himself without criticizing his actions also "she is good for his self esteem?" the guy went crazy for chrissakes

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Yes what happen was he was deposed and screwed over but did majority of the students get out of the quarantine area..Yes they did.

Irrelevant. It doesn't undermine how he treated and threaten his followers, once again highlighted in the episode by Yahiro of all people when he brought up Gai.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

The Exodus would have succeeded 100% if Arisa had not planned a coup d'état.

And how did Arisa's plan come about? Well?

Originally Posted by Sinestra

His plan was working and he made himself the bad guy in order to save everyone.

Nope, he was taking out his own frustration and uselessness at Hare's deaths at his followers. And the only reason why his half assed plan worked was because he used them as meatshields

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Had he not taken the actions that he did no matter how terrible he might have looked no would have survived the school would have descended into chaos with students killing each other over food and other supplies.

There's nothing in the show that states that Shu becoming a tyrant was the only solution because before Hare's death he was in the mist of finding another way other than the void rank system, also the school DID descend into chaos through his rule thanks in part to Inori attack Arisa which lead to the spreading of voids breaking causes death

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Shu kept order even if it was an uneasy one. One again trivializing the situation does not prove your point. Theres more to the world than black and white.

He did not, if he did keep order than he wouldn't have gotten betrayed. You're looking at it too narrow mindedly forgetting the fact that the show is telling you WHAT SHU IS DOING IS WRONG and even Shu ADMITS WHAT HE'S DOING IS WRONG and that HE'LL GET A PENALTY FOR HIS SINS. Are you this dense?

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Why did yo specify that particular scene but leave out the countless other times when Shu drew strength to do things he did not want to do because others were trouble

Because it should he was off his rocker and that was the scene that was being implanted on, you were the one that brought up all this "protecting" crap

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Shu does gain strength from protecting others and usually that what moves him to act more than anything. I never mention that particular scene and you are right that was not about protecting that was about avenging and he was angry.

Your entire argument falls apart because during those scenes of protecting people and those scenes where he grew strength Shu wasn't a tyrant, there was obviously something wrong with him mentality in comparison to everything else before.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

What makes you think you would be so calm and collected if you watched someone you cared about killed before your eyes, if you can understand the depth of that scene other than the violence than you are missing the true meaning in this story.

And what makes you think that people can complete change their mindset 5 minutes after someone they cared about died pointless? You're the only person missing something because the show never not even once made Shu seem sympathetic during those scenes

Originally Posted by Sinestra

You are basing your arguments on black and white facts when Guilty Crown is anything but a black and white story.

You're the only one basing your arguments as black and whit since you're defending Shu's actions even when he didn't think they were good at all, what does that say about you?

Originally Posted by Sinestra

The undertones of right and wrong and skewed on purpose you are only taking exactly what you see instead of trying to look deeper. You stated Shu was a crappy leader ok fine even i agree that Shu is not leader by nature but who made him the leader? The student body and Yahiro forced the role on him and even though he did not want to do it he did it anyway.

1- The people who elected Shu wasn't the tyrant Shu
2- Yahiro thought it was for the best
3-Shu should have declined

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Shu adopted the policy that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and despite all the crap that happen afterward his "WORKED" it was proven it worked because majority of the students escaped.

And your argument falls completely when he made an exception for Inori WHEN SHE BROKE IT but went off on someone for taking his eye off a second.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

History judges leaders later for their actions. Should a leader show weakness in public no a leader should be confident in the public eye at all times.

This is wrong, Julius Ceaser is remembered for his betrayal and not for his positive actions he did for the empire, Louis the XVI is remembered for his beheading and not for his positive actions. Even Richard Nixson is remembered for his business at waterloo and his impeachment not for the fact that he opened relationships in China for the US. A leader is only as good as his followers.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

But behind closed doors a leader needs someone to talk to, to ease their mind not to confirm if they are making the right or wrong decisions but just simply to be there. Presidents usually have their wives or a close ally (like Inori). I have spoken about this on several forums and no one has been able to give a good answer as to what they would have done differently in Shu's situation. Its easy to judge when you dont have to call the shots when you are not responsible for lives. Guilty Crown shows that sometimes you have to be the bad guy for accomplish something good for all.

The main problem with your entire stance is that the show is portraying Shu's actions negatively instead, it's not even moral gray either which is why Gai is constantly brought up as a counter to all of Shu's actions. You're not really suppose to sympathize with him because he he's literally going off the deep end, the show never points into light that being a tyrant was the ONLY solution either Shu CHOSE to be one under his own powerlessness and it failed because now his face on in a puddle of his own blood with his followers gunning to kill him. I mean if you felt nothing for the scene where Souta, the only person who would have defended Shu through all of this, pushed him down the pit due to his state and didn't think that was a sign of harsh irony then I can't really say anything else. The problem with most Shu supporters is that they see the results not the actions and blatantly ignore the show's message because they can't stop projecting. It seems like you don't quite understand this show as much as you imply.