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Old 2012-09-05, 07:35   Link #30375
GuestSpeaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Sigh, to summarise:

Re cause of amnesia:

Tohya had both drowned recently (though how the doctor knew this was dubious) AND been hit by a car, the doctor can't know which caused his amnesia because he can't prove temporality of which came first.

Re personality death and Kinzo:
Ryu defined personality death as meaning "never to act again", assuming that applies to all games, then it is valid in my opinions as a form of death ONLY if the characters are viewed as truly separate (and I believe that Ryu intended them to be, whether that is valid or not) and it was proved that personality exists. Kanon was known by Battler to be a thing, and Kinzo was never proved separate to Goldsmith. He was also never shown to have a body which acted after his declared death in any proven fashion.


As for resurrection with magic:

I always assumed they were either lying about it, or someone was just pretending. If Kanon truly is separate from Shannon or Yasu, even the best impersonation is not truly him. I can paint a forgery of a painting on the same canvas, and it can be impossible to distinguish them, but it is still a forgery. This is only a valid move in Umineko because if I declare in red "This painting is destroyed" and then show it to you, you have the ability to know something is up. Besides which she never even had to look like Kanon, because blind people have no resistance to magic (I wonder if you can say in that game she stayed with Jessica until the bomb went off)


As for Evatrice being a valid example of a proven personality:

Yeah she had a lot of development, but by all reliable perspective she never actually existed. She was a fantasy, and therefore is not a valid part of this argument.


As for Aura's comment that Umineko leaves us empty handed:

It may be because I came after the end of the series, so approached solving it quite casually and didn't have months to agonise over it, and I am sure we all love parts of it, I mean we are here, but even from a mystery standpoint it didn't leave us empty handed. Yes it was far from perfect, and had many possible mistakes (plot holes is dubious as besides one retconned door the mysteries are still solvable without the plot being completely derailed) but you could reason the gameboards at least with reasonable accuracy, and that sure was fun. If anything I think you are wrong, in that there was a third option: Ryu wanted to tell a story and have a mystery, but should have been more clear about which parts were and weren't solvable. For me (and this is just opinion) part of the point was while you could solve the boards, and could work out some information for the prime world, that you can't solve the real world.

After all, even the games said that the prime information was just given to help you solve the gameboards.
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