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Old 2013-07-30, 15:50   Link #32598
haguruma
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
How would you interpret "殺さ?" That is, is there a particular agency associated with this verb?
The notion of the Kanji is basically just to either kill or reduce something, but the grammatical form with された implies the passive as in "being killed". So 右代宮蔵臼は[...]とっくに殺されてる translates to "Ushiromiya Krauss has already long been killed", but you can make the argument that maybe a part of the person that is not Ushiromiya Krauss killed Ushiromiya Krauss at the point the phone conversation ended.
It doesn't work with suicide (自殺) though, as at least the text confirms that a distinction is being made, as made clear in EP3 where Beato confirms that during the 1st twilight 6人は誰も自殺していない! (None of the 6 persons committed suicide!). It is clear that at least the narrative treats these two differently.

Quote:
EDIT: It's kind of annoying how little distinction Japanese seem to have culturally between killing, homicide, and murder.
There is actually, like in other languages too, a linguistic differentiation as soon as you start referring to legal terminology. The distinction between 殺害 (killing) and 殺人 (murder) at least is pretty clear, but at least the definition of homicide becomes more difficult because while it is a clear concept in US common law it becomes hard to represent as a concept in other languages. Linguistically you can also in Japanese divide into 謀殺 (premeditated murder) and 故殺 (manslaughter), but the Japanese law doesn't make this immediate distinction.

This is something that can even occur in the same language, as for example in some German speaking countries the concept of Totschlag is closer to homicide in others it is further removed.

But I'd say, culturally acts of killing are always very indistinct within any culture, it is rather the answer to the question of justification, and the way language mirrors that, which differs from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
The simplest possible explanation for the obviously fake killings in the episode is that they're designed to induce Natsuhi to confess to Kinzo being dead, and almost every other character is complicit in this (except possibly Erika, who is being misled into reaching the very conclusion everyone expects her to reach).
My understanding is the following:
Yasu halted her murder game as promised when Battler solved the epitaph and filled him in during the family conference in the dining hall at night. Yet the parents considered it a great idea to force a confession out of Krauss and Natsuhi concerning the death of Kinzo and their own scheme due to that very charade. They used the guise of the witch to make it appear as if some unknown hidden party had delivered the ring to Battler, confined Krauss to one of the rooms in the mansion and made either Shkannon or possibly even Battler make the menacing calls to Natsuhi.

Battler's involvement is highly likely due to (A) his carefree behavior shortly after the victims were discovered and (B) it being an explanation to his sudden change in character at the end when Natsuhi has her nervous breakdown. His 駄目だ。全然駄目だ would not be the usual "it's useless. it's all useless" but rather a "this is wrong. this is completely wrong," realizing what he had been drawn into. It would also explain his visible reluctance to follow the parents insistence of "putting on the ring" much more than just him not wanting to be the head, but up until Natsuhi's complete breakdown when everybody just went totally overboard on her did he realize that no matter what crimes she had committed this was too much.

Regarding the question of "who killed Krauss", this could actually explain why even EP5 would end in the locked state of the tragedy, as it would serve as a trigger for further horrible events to transpire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
You are misapplying Knox. If Yasu is Shannon/Kanon (and she is), then she was properly foreshadowed several episodes ago purely by the fact that Shannon, Kanon, and Beatrice have been implied to be different facets of the same individual.
Not only that, the existence of the "mysterious heir" is even sufficiently foreshadowed in EP1. From the questioning of a possible mistress and/or child, to the relationship between Beatrice and Kinzo, all the way to Natsuhi's reaction of "I would have never believed somebody like you might actually exist."
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