[Levy]

now this is an interesting thread =)

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Lelouch knew he was screwed when he saw Schneizel, but lacking knowledge of what happened he just assumed that Schneizel convinced them. Schneizel is convincing, sure, and it's probably 50/50 or better that he would have won them over anyway, but Ohgi seriously tipped those scales from "rational removal from power" to "kill the bastard at any cost."

ahaah LOL, after having disagreed so much on this, now you brought up a point I can agree with. I don't think that Schneizel was sure to have such an easy game in making the BK lose all of their trust in Zero, and underestimated their emotive reaction and personal hatred toward him as he undiclosed his files, and there you have to start to wonder why...
but... it was not just Ohgi that felt affected personally by Lelouch's betrayal. Take for example the pained look with wich Tohdoh remebers Asahina's last word and the way he called his name: that event affected him too on a personal level - he might seem more rightfull in his emotive reaction, because being affected by the loss of a comrade is commonly considered an honorable thing, but it's not being 'rational' either. You can easily assume that the same thing goes for Chiba.
And all of this is perfectly understandable on an emotive level.

just like they don't bring up that Ohgi's consorting with a Britannian soldier in front of them (it amazes me to no end that not one person even thinks to call him on that relationship).

we'll never know if and when they did - that is a side plot that was not developed if not offscreen, and in ep.19 all things concerning Zero were much more of a priority then investigating about the previous relationship between Ohgi and Villetta. It's not that him being in love with Villetta changes anything about the evidences Schneizel presented and that Villetta was able to confirm - because, for the tenth times of more, Ohgi knows from before falling for her that Villetta was aware of Zero's true identity, that was the reason why he sheltered her...

I still say it takes some desire, or he wouldn't have been plotting against Charles back in season 1. Same with Lelouch. His actions were motivated by a desire. He wanted a change and had to be the one to make it happen.

are you sure he did...? because, I'm not that fresh on s1, but Schneizel was the one encouraging Euphie to go ahead with the SAZ, even thought, that would have meant reducing the egemony of Britannia. But the SAZ was also a way to stop the guerrilla in Area11, because inviting Zero to join it, Euphie had cornered him in accepting to bury the hatchet or became an enemy of the same nation he was claiming to fight for...
This makes sense with the idea that Schneizel was more than ready to accept compromises in order to obtain peace, even loosing some territories, if that would turn out as the more effective solution.

Another thing I'm quite confused about is, when does Schneizel realized that also the new Zero was Lelouch?
I think he knew already at their meeting in China....