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Originally Posted by monster
How would she not know?
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The same way she didn't know that Orbs treaty with the EA was a done deal from the beginning.
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It's not a plot hole when we're talking about idealistic Cagalli.
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Yes but Cagali isn't the sole force in Orbs government. And that's not just idealistic. It's plain as hell stupid and way too idealistic even for her as well. She said it herself back in SEED (I think episode 28) that in order for them to survive to maintain their ideals, they need to be strong military force. That doesn't suggest to me like she has any idealistic notions of what other nations are like.
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Of course they knew. They just didn't care. Because not only do they want to end it quickly, they believe they can do it by using nuclear weapons. So again, MAD is never a factor here.
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The entire story made a point about how both sides think they could achieve peace by wiping out all their enemies, and was a recurrent theme in Episode 47 when Azarel used those nuclear warheads.
And please bear in mind that Azarel would have actually successfully destroyed PLANT with those missiles had Kira and Athrun not intervened, so regardless of what is logically, Azarel still had the element of surprise. There is no doubt that Azarel believed there would be no consequences.
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Why would they continue using a weapon that ZAFT has a perfect counter for?
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To test if it really is the perfect counter. And to see if they have that perfect counter on Earth as well.
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Even then, my point about Boaz still stands. If the EA is willing to continue attacking ZAFT even when the EA knows that ZAFT also possesses the ability to use nuclear weapons AND after the EA has proven themselves willing to use nuclear weapons as well, then they won't have a problem attacking Orb even if Orb has nuclear weapons.
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So it's dependant on your Boaz point? Well I guess I've said all that can be said then.
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But either way, Orb doesn't have nuclear weapons, so that's that.
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I'm not assuming anything. The point about Orb not wanting to be invaded again was brought up in the show itself.
It is you who are assuming that Orb should believe that they have could deter the EA when their last experience with the EA clearly show they couldn't.
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Yes, I am assuming that. Because that's what would make sense and would be in character. I've made this point already.
And why you think the point about Orb not wanting to be invaded again is somehow relevant is beyond me. I'm arguing that Orb has reason to believe they can deter the EA. By the very definition of deterrence, that would also prevent Orb from being invaded.
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I don't know why it's so hard for you to get the connection. The Berlin example shows the EA's character. The EA's character is one reason why Orb would decide it might be better to join them rather than risk being invaded again.
Orb doesn't have to know about the Berlin example to know the EA's character, because they knew that from SEED. But the Berlin example is further demonstration to the audience of the EA's character.
Is this really so hard to understand?
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What I'm trying to understand is how what is a demonstration to the audience way after the treaty, is relevant to Orb's character before the treaty.
Simple question: Is it relevant to the point we are discussing? Yes or no?
If not, then please drop it.
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They do it for both. To know where it is and to have proof that it is there.
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If you watch the scene in Episode 25 again (about the 13th minute mark) you can easily tell that they aren't even remotely in doubt that Archangel is there or not. They specifically identify sneaking in to find it's whereabouts, but never say anything about confirming if it's actually there.