[monster]

Originally Posted by Haak

The same way she didn't know that Orbs treaty with the EA was a done deal from the beginning.

Except she did know beforehand. The treaty couldn't be made without her knowing. Orb joined the EA only after Cagalli had returned and failed to stop the treaty from being made. And that's when they suddenly turned hostile against the Minerva.

Yes but Cagali isn't the sole force in Orbs government. And that's not just idealistic. It's plain as hell stupid and way too idealistic even for her as well. She said it herself back in SEED (I think episode 28) that in order for them to survive to maintain their ideals, they need to be strong military force. That doesn't suggest to me like she has any idealistic notions of what other nations are like.

Building mobile suits for defensive purpose is not the same thing as building nuclear weapons.

The entire story made a point about how both sides think they could achieve peace by wiping out all their enemies, and was a recurrent theme in Episode 47 when Azarel used those nuclear warheads.

Exactly, thus MAD is not a factor.

And please bear in mind that Azarel would have actually successfully destroyed PLANT with those missiles had Kira and Athrun not intervened, so regardless of what is logically, Azarel still had the element of surprise. There is no doubt that Azarel believed there would be no consequences.

If they could do that to the PLANTs, they could do that to anyone, including Orb.

To test if it really is the perfect counter. And to see if they have that perfect counter on Earth as well.

Uh, it effectively destroyed all their nuclear weapons. I don't think they needed further testing.

Yes, I am assuming that. Because that's what would make sense and would be in character. I've made this point already.

And why you think the point about Orb not wanting to be invaded again is somehow relevant is beyond me. I'm arguing that Orb has reason to believe they can deter the EA. By the very definition of deterrence, that would also prevent Orb from being invaded.

By definition, a deterrence is something that would prevent an attack. Since Orb has already been attacked by the EA, Orb doesn't have any reason to believe that they could deter the EA.

What I'm trying to understand is how what is a demonstration to the audience way after the treaty, is relevant to Orb's character before the treaty.

The Berlin example is further showing to the audience what Orb already knew about the EA from SEED. In other words, it gives credence for Orb's decision to join the EA.

If you watch the scene in Episode 25 again (about the 13th minute mark) you can easily tell that they aren't even remotely in doubt that Archangel is there or not. They specifically identify sneaking in to find it's whereabouts, but never say anything about confirming if it's actually there.

Athrun's words in the episode Land of Peace:

"We cannot take unprepared actions alone without conclusive evidence."

So while they're not in doubt that the Archangel is in Orb, they still wanted evidence.