[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

In that case I'm sure you haven't missed all its discussion of democracy, the relative merits thereof, etc...

I'm certainly not saying that democracy is perfect, or even close to perfect, but given what the Queerats were like when we first met them in this anime...

The Queerat living area we most recently saw (the one that Yakomaru showcased to Saki and Satoru just prior to the most recent time-skip) struck me as being considerably more advanced and comfortable than the Queerat living area we saw way back in Episode 4 or so.

So I don't think it's just their weapons that are improving. If I did think that, my view on the Queerats would be a bit more cynical, and closer to Kirarakim's.

You keep talking about "taking the fight to the humans" - you do realize that Squealer started the conflict with the humans, right? If he hadn't arranged the annihilation of Kiroumaru's colony (the force of his most powerful political enemy, also loyal to humans) behind the humans' back, they wouldn't have decided to wipe them out.

Ok, here might be the crux of our disagreement.

When Yakomaru and Kiroumaru both met with the humans an episode ago, my impression was that the humans were making it clear that they weren't taking sides in the obviously brewing Queerat War because they found Yakomaru's story vaguely possible. Basically, I thought that the humans were proclaiming neutrality on Yakomaru's group vs. Kiroumaru's group. Otherwise, why not get directly involved in the war,
Satoru-style?

Sure, he has few choices now. But it's not like he's a victim of the circumstances.

I do think that Yakomaru wants war with the humans, yes. Nonetheless, the humans had their chance to pick sides in Yakomaru vs. Kiroumaru, and they pretty much chose to stay out of it. Even when war began, Saki was just sitting dispassionately on the sidelines next to some other guy watching it unfold like it was today's SuperBowl.

And that in my personal opinion, someone can fight for the rights of his people and still be a repulsive individual.

Yes, I agree. Obviously a great deal of what Yakomaru does is distasteful.

Originally Posted by creb

Democracy is a political tool to keep the plebians in line. As political tools for that purpose, there are far worse, but the fact that actual rational adults believe in all the fluffy fairy-talk when it comes to what democracy is, simply proves how effective the idea of seeming inclusion is when it comes to a method of rule.

Individuals who want power came to realize that it's easier to keep the rabble in line with high-ideals and seeming inclusion, than tight-fisted authoritarianism and hang-em-all attitude.

I'm not arguing for, or against it. I'm of the mind that most people, including me, really don't give two shits what form of government exists when the chips are on the table (as opposed to sitting in the comforts of our modern societies that let us live in ways most of human history wouldn't be able to imagine, as we sip our wine and make high-minded remarks about things on the internet),

You say this sarcastically, but honestly, isn't this precisely what proves the "fluffy fairy talk" surrounding democracy to not be "fairy talk" at all, but valid assessments of it?

Yes, modern society is light years better than what we had in medieval times. And I don't think it's a coincidence that such modern societies tend to be democratic ones. In less democratic societies, people don't always get to "sit in the comforts of their modern societies that let them live in ways most of human history wouldn't be able to imagine, as they sip wine and make high-minded remarks about things on the internet".

I see the story ending in one of two ways (if I'm wrong, please don't tell me via pm):

1) Going all in and ending with the rats as the dominant life form on the planet. As Saki is narrating this story, from what is presumably the "future", this seems unlikely, though if the author had a personality like mine, this entire story would be the result of Saki as a slave to the rat kingdom, in a state of near-catatonic shock, thinking back to her happier times.
2) Taking a more idealistic approach of a more balance partnership between humans, rats, and human's approach to their "power", resulting in a new world that probably doesn't answer any of the zillions of questions of how it would work, but at least ends on an upper, rather than a downer.

I'd prefer #1. However, no matter how tragic a story, it usually doesn't earn all sorts of awards and gain mass appeal, like this one apparently has done, if it ends in such a depressing way, so I'm guessing some sort of bloody immediate future is going to result in both the humans and rats to self-reflect and realize the status quo can not work any longer (putting aside whether it can or not from the viewer's perspective).

Honestly, I think that a total "bad end" is possible here. In fact, I'll be shocked if anything as pleasant as your No. 2 end happens, but if it does, so be it.

I'm viewing your No. 1 as the best likely end.

Part of the reason that I view your No. 2 end as unlikely is that it makes all of "future Saki's" utter doom and gloom narration seem a bit excessive.