[Keroko]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

What actually came out in the shooting form is a clue. There is clearly a limited range of transformation. If the dedicated shooting mode does not reach a rifle form (even you know it is not the best of ergonomics for the long range shoot or else you won't be rationalizing), why should I believe a rifle mode is available on request?

Because Nanoha was told to imagine a weapon?

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

However, since homing bullets are (understandably since most of them are MCLOS) slower than high-speed straight runners, you are still very much advised to aim the straight runners. It is another matter if those homing bullets are at least accurate, but frankly, they keep getting dodged. Worse, the majority of them are manually controlled. Thus, you are potentially more vulnerable than a plane firing Sparrow missiles (which can at least manuever within the Allowable Steering Error, instead of being stuck standing up).

So, if you aim, you might miss but at least you can manuever after firing. If you don't aim and rely solely on command guidance, you save a second or two pre firing (maybe, or did you waste that entering target data?) but lose as you stand there like a statue, with your eyes closed because you don't even have the brainpower left to maintain the broader situational awareness with your eyes.

I don't see why, as long as you keep your oponent within your line of sight, you can target them and manouver at the same time. Your shots respond to your mental commands, which is hardly comparable to our MCLOS. You simply have to think where you want the round to go and it goes there, so in a dogfight, I would rather prefer these rounds, as they constantly chase my oponent, forcing him to either keep dodging or start blocking which keeps him from attacking. You can manouver and keep him pinned without losing accuracy, with a rifle, you have to stop moving in order to profit from your sights.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

So, the gun gets no extra points for:
1) Accuracy, so it might kill swordsman before he can close? Remember that if he closes, even if you might do somewhat better with a staff, you are still at a disadvantage. Wouldn't doing your best to kill him at your favored distance be a better move? For example, if the effective range of the rifle is 200m, and the staff 100m, then I get twice the time to bust him (and more chances to increase that time further by appropriate extension), and thus avoiding what is ultimately a disadvantageous encounter! If I use a sniper rifle to extend that to 600m (Vice's sniper rifle had some of the highest MVs in the series), then there is little comparison.

Like I said, guided shots work just as fine and you can actually correct them when you shoot, giving you a higher chance to hit, so no the gun doesn't get points in accuracy.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

2) The ability to have a bayonet, which would at least be a cutting surface. The staff is blunt all the way through.

Ah, here we start roaming in my area of expertise. No, a bayonet to a rifle does not a good melee weapon make. Sure, its a decent idea for unarmed oponents or other people with bayonet rifles, maybe even short weapons like daggers, but a rifle is not a melee weapon. The very things that make it oh-so-great at range (sights and stocks) make it a very clumsy and unwieldy weapon in melee. Someone with a staff has a much better chance of winning.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

3) Presumably, if I'm duelling w/ someone with my rifle, I'll be contacting his weapon mostly with my barrel. Based on Bardiche, barrels are not likely to be the core, so even if he slices my barrel in two, I can a) quickly replace it and b) have a chance to shoot him at PB, with the psychological advantage of surprise (since he's just done slicing downwards in truimph). As Fate vs Chrono showed, attacks with surprise, even with lower power, can be decisive.

While we have been shown that weapons can recover from heavy damage, this skill has never been used while in combat, despite the many times it could have been. This highly suggests some time and effort is involved in recovering, which means there would be no 'quick' recovery.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

4) Small point: The fact that I have a rifle means I don't need a half-assed Shooting Mode to give me some of the advantages of a rifle (my melee mode will involve adding a bayonet). That means my rifle may potentially have only one form. I don't know, but all else being equal, having only one form can't hurt its good construction.

No, instead you need a less-then-half-assed mode to melee, which will fail in any real combat with a propper staff wielder.

Teana's Dagger Mode is much more viable, and even that is calling upon my SoD. It looks more like a 'crap, last resort' type of weapon then an effective melee weapon. If they had reshaped the handguard just a tad more straight, they'd be more believable.

...

Heh. would you look at that. So this is what the other side of the fence looks like.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Actually, with the rifle, you have a variety of choices. You can select whether to aim or to use the self control stuff.

But you severely lack in melee.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Cross out "deadly accuracy" and replace with "hits". Replace "long range" with "100m", and append "with an unchoked shotgun" and tack on "fired by a what they call a prodigy". Thanks to Vice, we know that for real accuracy, Midchildran magitech had not allowed people to abandon the basics.

I'm sorry, but I concider hitting someone that has become a little dot in the distance, gun or no, a long range shot with deadly accuracy.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

And did I say "No papering over weaknesses with unproven magitech?" Yes, I did.

Did I do that? I merely said that recoil did not seem to be an issue, which is a fact.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

I might as well say that I can arrange for not only a bayonet, but for my whole barrel to create a magic sword a la Bardiche's scythe (it'll also protect the barrel)! That basically gives me almost a shortsword or shortspear versus your staff in melee.

Yes, you could, and you'd still have a pretty crappy melee weapon. The lack of blade is not an issue, the fact that you have absolutely no way to wield it even remotely comfortable much less effectively is. Why do you think Cross Mirage's grip slides back?

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

See all above objections. Further, I asked you to demonstrate that the staff is the best all around compromise. And the sword, hammer, battleaxe ... etc don't even get a hearing? Frankly, IMO your comparison heavily biases towards the melee, which is actually acceptable since it reveals your concept of combat, but then what happened to the comparison versus dedicated melee weapons? I can use the same stabilization "magitech" to paper over the weaknesses of the melee weapon at long range, then drive on to its clear advantages in melee, and conclude if anything, the sword is the best all around compromise!

The problem with the staff is that it is neither fish or fowl. It clearly does not match up to the rifle. Nor does it match up to the sword. The sword is superior in melee and will be comparable to the staff at range with all the paper overing magitech you are trying to give it.

Yee, I dunno, maybe because this was a gun/staff comparison? Anyway, I can compare every single device we've seen so far, but I can already tell you Bardiche comes out on top, clearly. It functions similar to a staff and is an axe ready to be used in melee without any mode-shifting.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Physically support? I see it playing back magics one after another. Admittedly it was clever, but let's not be abscribing the sky and earth.

Playing back entirely original and on-the-spot improvised manouvres? You can't possibly be serious!

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Further, it is clearly an improvised measure that more shows the ingenuity of the particular AI then the feature set she was endowed with.

So what you are saying is that it is the AI that does the work? Because, you know, that's what I've been saying all along.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Matter are forcefields. Forcefields are not necessarily matter.

So things are solid because of forcefields, but forcefields aren't neccisarely solid, and since devices are solid... Aaagh! This is completely confusing me.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

You are actually relying on a ordinary dictionary? Again I ask you. If she was reverted to energy, where is the energy? How is there still a will? Why are there still vitals?

She disapeared in sparkles, there was no wormhole, she was converted to energy, vitals could still be read because her existence was still there inside the Yami no Sho.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

She has a fair range of ranged spells, but her orientation is in close range. Thus, her weapon represented her inclinations.

A fair share of ranged spells she often uses, mind you. She is far more ranged oriented then Vita, for example.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

To be fair, Vice was actually doing pretty well until Lutecia came in and he had a PTSD flashback. At least Vice was fighting. What was Nanoha doing again?

I was talking about Teana, actually.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

By the way, remind me how this section disintegrated into an exchange of character assassinations?

Dunno, discussions have a tendency to wind down like this.

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

According to Nanoha, if you have enough power, which Vivio almost certainly has, flying almost as much of a breeze as walking. How old is it when you learnt to walk?

When? Where? Last I recall it took a lot more, being labeled as an 'A rank skill'

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Why not? I'm sure I'm not the only person who was thinking when we saw the two moving inside the barrier that "DO they have magic? Can't wait to see the third season (where unfortunately they are shafted)" Frankly, it would have been much more interesting to see those two become mages than the Forwards, especially the Lightning team

Now there is one thing we agree on unconditionally.