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Old 2013-01-07, 09:38   Link #31569
Join Date: Oct 2012
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix
Now there are a few ways to kill someone as big as Gohda.. :
1 Using a stake up close
2 Using a gun shooting through the
3 Using device X to shoot the stakes
Staking doesn't work, you can't actually get a good enough grip on them. "Our Confession" implies that the victims are shot and then the stake is inserted in the wound.

And really, in theory all your musings about Battler not sleeping long enough... we're talking Ryukishi, the "food trolley traveling to Kinzo's room over multiple stairs" and "people not getting wet in the rain" Ryukishi. Let's not go into too much detail. Battler might've just fallen asleep naturally anyway - lack of information.
Quite ironic how we're constructing a Rosatrice solution for this case to actually criticise Rosatrice.

I always assumed that Genji (who received the letter before from Shannon) gave the letter to Maria while Rosa and Battler were distracted with Natsuhi's room. Considering that those two were also possible candidates for the "letter in Kinzo's room" in EP1 it wouldn't be too outlandish.

Regarding the knock: a possible way of looking at is ... there was no knock. None of the reds actually confirm this, just that it was impossible for everyone. The narrative we saw is basically just this: everyone agreed that they heard a knock. But nobody actually did knock. Everyone agreed that the letter was placed outside. Everyone agreed that a witch did it. Everyone agreed that Shannon is not Beatrice.
That's the lie everyone is creating together, like a big happy family. It's so convenient when there is no detective around.

But as I said, EP5 is my weak point.

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix
While my first guess on Umineko was 'Shanon' for some weird reason as soon as I understood that it was supposed to be a mystery, Yasu/Shanon is seemingly not the right answer.
The probability of Shkanon being the intened solution is quite high.

Of course, due to the nature of how Chiru worked, different interpretations to many events are still possible.

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix
The problem is that, in every story, Ange is allowed to live with someone taking care of her in a way that makes her want to solve what happened back then. If it was Kasumi(kyrie's siter) she'd be dead though.
Well, that's the thing, KNM claims that a lot of Ange and Chiru is a flat out lie to deceive those that are not "the chosen ones" (yes, he said that).

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix
I might remember it wrong since its already been a few years, but if my memory serves me right the translation said '[...],still no more than 16 [...].
Wrong. "no more than 17" and "even with you [Erika], there are only 17" is what we're working with. Technically speaking, despite implying that there are only 16, it's never actually reduced to that number. And as you saw yourself, because of that other interpretations than Shkanon are possible due to Erika's odd kind-of-existence.

If the number of people had been proclaimed as being 16, we wouldn't discuss any of this.

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix
It was not EP 8 how I got the idea btw. I remembered a translated Ryukishi interview stating that there were additional, visual only, hints in the anime and re-watched it. I have yet to read EP 8, which I don't really want to do as the outcome changes according to mini games and other player behavior.
I was just making a joke, don't worry. Basically, Gohda screws up in a magic scene. And it's the only thing he did over the entirety of Chiru.

You should read EP8 before using purple truth. It is questionable whether it even applies or is just something Bern made up for her little game (and thus doesn't count for any other game). Don't misunderstand. If purple truth applies however, it would destroy any way for George to be a culprit (since he can only kill children and Maria is still alive at the end). But Yasu has many accomplices herself, some of them can't even kill by the way of the red.

edit: Ah yes, one of the reds Erika used? You shouldn't take this one out of context. Really... just read EP8 before commenting on any of it, generally neither Bern's game nor her purple truth are seen as "canon" for the other episodes (just like the EP7 TP isn't "canon" for Beato's games). At least now I know where you are coming from with your arguments about accomplices.

So, basically, purple truth would make both KNM's Rosatrice (even if George "was a culprit" due to some murder in the past, he still can't kill anyone else than children... Maria said this in purple, are you gonna say that she killed someone in the past?) and Shkanon pretty impossible. It gets even worse if we add the "culprit rules" as well:

Rosatrice would fall apart at Kanon's murder (Nanjo not being an accomplice ... he can't even be one; arguably even the 1st twilight might be impossible in that case), Shkanon already in the 1st twilight (Hideyoshi can't lie about seeing Shannons corpse then). And the further you go, the more problems arise. Unless of course everyone is a murderer from some event in the past (with the exception of Genji, Kumasawa, Nanjo due to the red truth that they are not murderers) but that kinda defeats the point then.
Heck, even before any murders happen... NatKrauShaKaKumaGenJo constantly lie about Kinzo too. And by the rules of purple truth and a red statement, that's impossible for three of them... scratch that, four of them: it has been confirmed that Natsuhi is not the culprit in EP5, even though she killed someone in the past (the servant with the child).

See why purple truth and the associated rules are generally not seen as significant outside of Bern's game?

Last edited by qno2; 2013-01-07 at 11:07.
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