[Xander]

Originally Posted by azul120

I don't disagree about ideas and themes, but plotline justifications, as well as cause and effect are everything. Without them, you have plot holes among other signs of spotty writing.

Well, I certainly won't claim Code Geass R2 is lacking spotty writing.

But among those spots there are also some strong themes and layers that are worth thinking about in my opinion.

Thus I believe there are aspects of it that can be appreciated...even if they're usually not enough to completely make up for all the real or perceived issues. Instead of calling everything that wasn't perfect senseless or pointless and running away in disappointment or anger, however, I am interested in trying to understand what the creators did and why. There may not be a definitive answer but informed interpretations are valid approximations.

Basically, it seems Taniguchi and Okouchi knew where they were going and at least attempted to take the necessary steps towards that goal...even if they ultimately ended up having to rush, compromise and take ugly shortcuts during the production process. Which, unfortunately, did result in too much of an unwelcome imbalance that will hopefully be avoided in future projects.

I did kind of state that he had been a Cosmic Plaything from the start. It was just that things had gotten ridiculous in the final half of R2.

Fair enough then, but my point was that even those ridiculous events are thematically consistent despite their greater or lesser logical flaws.

Well, yes, the world isn't fair, and Jay Leno getting the Tonight Show back at Conan O'Brien's expense, for instance, is proof positive of that. The problem with the ending is that it is presented as a happy if bittersweet ending, in spite of the screwedupness of Cornelia living reasonably happy and standing in the presence of the Japanese in the wedding photo, and Ohgi and Villetta getting the happiest ending. Any karmic dissonance is completely handwaved.

I don't think any of those elements make the ending less bittersweet in the grand scheme of things. I can understand the source of your bitterness but complete karmic harmony is ultimately a matter of personal expectations and not a requirement. The point of showing generally happy scenes was to provide some sort of emotional pick-me-up after the tragedy of Lelouch's death, which had literally concluded the main narrative for all intents and purposes.

Among those scenes, the wedding photo bothered a number of viewers but I think it was just a way to kill two birds with one stone. Doing that saves time for the rest of the epilogue, which was already a bit too short, and basically tells fans the cast was able to resolve their differences off-screen within the new status quo.

Whether or not those characters deserved to be happy is always open to debate because not everyone found them sympathetic. Those who didn't will never agree with those who did. Personally, I think Cornelia is, ironically, less of an issue for most people than Ougi and Villetta. She wasn't really a true antagonist in R2 and Euphemia's death can be considered a form of karmic punishment for her brutal conquests. Ougi's betrayal remaining unpunished is simultaneously more displeasing but also more of a petty matter. The real world is full of individuals who can get away with similar or worse actions.

I definitely wanted to see a more nuanced epilogue myself, with more information about the state of the world or more discrimination in terms of who gets a happy ending and who doesn't, but I've essentially come to terms with what happened because the central thematic core of the ending remains more important for me.

And I forgot to mention that the Zero Requiem caused more damage than anything Lelouch did beforehand, and the resulting peace isn't conflict-proof. That, and Lelouch would be more useful to the world living on as a leader than he is dead.

Short term damage, that is, for Lelouch still believed the ends justified the means. As for himself, he felt there was no turning back from the path of carnage because of a combination of despair, guilt, pride and his own moral code. Lelouch was content to create a better status quo for the world and believed those who survived will continue to struggle in order to keep the peace as part of an ongoing process. This logic isn't perfect, of course, but it fits the character's mindset.

I think we've already gone through the entire Zero Requiem argument over half a dozen times by now, in all fairness, so forgive me for not elaborating further.

Though it does all make for a good sequel hook, and a reason for Lelouch to come back to life.

Maybe, maybe not. New conflicts are surely entirely possible but only time will tell if we'll ever see any of them.