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Old 2012-01-06, 18:39   Link #521
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
And I'm not saying that Orochimaru was stronger than Madara, Pain and so on...
you're saying hiruzen is and I'm saying that in order to stop orochi he had to sacrifice his own life. sure he was old, but nothing he did in that fight implied that he would be so tremendously better when he was younger. I'm not coming down on hiruzen. hes awesome. im saying that the powers we saw in that fight pale in comparison to things like rinnegan, susano'o, meteors and moons

What? That makes no sense. Like I said, the fight was short, you can't say a guy can be another just from seeing him in one fight against one completely different opponent. It was stated in the manga that he beat Madara anyway so what's you point?
the moves hashirama used in that ET form were not all that impressive when compared to current fights. therefore we can assume that orochimaru's ET was not complete. kabuto even says himself that he's perfected ET beyond what orochimaru was capable of.

Let me see if I can explain it in a way you'll understand.
please do I'm all ears for this nonsense.

I highly doubt that all Hashirama knew how to do in a battle was use Mokuton jutsu. Surely a ninja of his caliber would be strong at using other types of jutsu. If that wasn't the case, eventually other ninjas would find ways to counter his for example Madara. If Hashirama only use Mokuton then all Madara needed to do was use Amaterasu to burn the wood and Hashirama wouldn't have been able to beat him. Yet Hashirama did beat him, thus he obviously could use more than wood jutsu.
I totally agree. you dont seem to understand that you are contradicting yourself. if hashirama was capable of so much more (which we both seem to believe he is) then why not use it to beat sarutobi? simple answer: orochimaru wasnt fully adept at using him.

That doesn't even make sense, I didn't even mention Orochimaru's use of Hashirama there. ET brings back people and the seal he implanted in their brain just takes away their free will, like I said, this means they fight normally regardless of who summoned them. Orochimaru being stronger or weaker should have no effect on how strong the First and the Second were when summoned.
And what I meant in that quote you did was that we only saw Hashirama fight once, however we've seen Yamato fight multiple times, so of course we've seen Yamato use more wood jutsu than Hashirama. Not only that but during that fight there were multiple fights going on as well, some including main characters, meaning screen time was limited.
again contradicting yourself. if they fight normally then why didnt hashirama fight to his fullest potential? im not saying yamato is stronger than hashirama, not by a long shot. but if we take all the moves yamato has used they are much more advanced than what we saw from hashirama in that fight. again this keeps proving my point that orochi wasnt able to fully utilize him.

I never brought ET up as Orochimaru's power, what I did was say that Sarutobi fought 3 powerful ninjas, not Orochimaru and his summons, which is what we should view as since ET is not a normal summoning jutsu and should not count toward individual skill in battle.
I agree with this as I've stated before. if we do count it, then kabuto clearly is the most powerful ninja.

What do you want me to say? Make a detailed post dictating how the fight should go? xD
Truthfully, the only real problem I see Sarutobi having would be against God realm Pain and hell...if Naruto was able to eventually take advantage of his weakness I highly doubt someone like Sarutobi wouldn't have not only figured it out quicker, but also make a plan to counter it.
I see alot more. I'd list them but id be wasting my time.

Really...I only said that it saddened me that people seemed to forget about Sarutobi and his accomplishments just because newer, shinier and flashier characters have shown up in Shippuden.
not true. i respect him a lot and he's up there. just not above the people you originally mentioned

Originally Posted by White Silver King View Post
That's not really a fair question. Ninjutsu has evolved into an entirely different animal since the part of the manga when Sarutobi was around. It'd be more accurate to call the "jutsu" we're seeing now superpowers. I have no doubt had Hiruzen survived into this part of the manga he too would have a plethora of these superpowers as well.
right, but he did die. each generation is mostly superior to the last one, which is a common theme in naruto. jutsu now arent anymore superpowers than what sarutobi displayed. they are just more advanced and more powerful. its all magic on a very general way of looking at since no humans can do any of this stuff. the discussion is about who is the best in their primes. when all is said and done it will be naruto and sasuke almost certainly.
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