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Old 2012-09-18, 19:04   Link #30670
jjblue1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by battle22 View Post
But Gameboard Yasu does not exist, We have no idea what she thinks ,what she wants . We only get glimpse of her thoughts in Ep7 and the last two years were skiped Because Will or Clair, I dont remember which said it that the last two years are not needed...So I understand you guys and I agree that we don't know anything about her.
Actually the one about which we don't know things is PrimeYasu. The best we know about PrimeYasu is that she might have been the author of Ep 1 & 2, of which we aren't sure as we've no proofs Ep 2 is the second tale in the bottle nor we know if the two tales were told faithfully as they could be read in the messages or were embellished.

The one we 'deal with' is PieceYasu who commits the murders on the gameboard and whose story is told in Ep 7. PrimeYasu's real story might have had some common elements but we really don't know if it's the same. PieceYasu surely decided to commit murders and then kill herself and destroy the island. Can we say the same for PrimeYasu? We don't know. She might have, she might have not.

We don't even know if PrimeYasu was really Kanon & Shannon or the idea to represent herself as two servants was merely metaphorical, we don't know if PrimeYasu played Kanon's role at Jessica's school with Jessica knowing it was Yasu/Shannon in truth, we don't know if George really planned to ask Shannon to marry him or it was just an one sided thing from Yasu/Shannon, just to name a couple of things that are rather important for Yasu.

Note also that PieceShannon and PieceKanon are strongly in love with George and Jessica and willing to off each other to fulfil their wish. Can the same be said for their Prime versions or they're just a metaphor of a wish of being a certain type of person?

If we assume that PrimeYasu never meant to kill anyone, her intention contrasting sharply with PieceYasu who meant to make a mass murder we've to assume what we learnt on the gameboard about PieceYasu didn't necessary apply to PrimeYasu. Otherwise, if they're the same, they shared the same murdering intention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
Why are you assuming that Yasu is unable to confirm what Genji tells her. You honestly think that if there is something seriously wrong with your body--like castration--it's "impossible" to verify? You have absolutely no proof that Genji wasn't able to substantiate his story, so judging Yasu on those grounds is pretty hilarious.
Well, Umineko is pretty vague in how and when Yasu learnt about her body mutilation.

If in all those years didn't realize it either she's very ignorant on anatomy or it's something that can't be seen first glance (if she had a uterus and it was removed/damaged, well at best you'll notice a scar that you won't necessarily connect to a missing/damaged uterus).

If she could already realize herself what had happened to her, Genji told her nothing new... but somehow Umineko seems to imply she discovered it only right then and not before as apparently it's in that moment she start to consider herself as furniture.

Anyway, Genji apparently told her something she hadn't realized herself. So to confirm it either she can start studying anatomy or needs to go to a doctor to check.

Now, apparently her problem is a delicate issue so she might not be so willing to go have it checked by a doctor especially since likely she was told there was no way to fix it.

Genji making up such a story for some unknown reason seems hard to picture so really, the only reason I can see for Yasu to check Genji's words is because she's either lacking faith in him or she's delusional. In either way it requires a certain amount of guts to face her problems which I can't see Yasu having.

So I don't think it's likely Yasu would check Genji's story about her injury.
What Genji might have lied about though, willing or by mistake, is about Natsuhi causing her to fall from a cliff. Yasu evidently found out and believed Natsuhi did it on purpose. Genji wasn't there to check if Natsuhi did it on purpose and not even Natsuhi is that reliable as she was in a peculiar state of mind.

This is something Yasu can't know for sure as well as she can't know for sure she's really Kinzo's daughter without a DNA test.

Genji might have told her that story just because he wanted to make Kinzo happy before he were to die.

Through all this is apparently unimportant as, according to Yasu, that's not why she's doing things. So either she's lying or her injury, her fall and her birth aren't as important as Battler breaking is promise is.

I like to think they are but that's not what Beatrice insist is her motive. Her motive is Battler forgetting his promise... though if Battler had remembered it she wouldn't have turned into Lion. She would have still been an incest baby, tossed off a cliff by Natsuhi and mutilated.

But hey, at 13 she would have been living on her own in a big city, working and studying and maybe seeing Battler at school and when she was off duty and maybe Battler might have decided to date her... or he might have dumped her as his promised required only to go get Yasu, not to devote his life to her. But hey, the fact he would have kept it would have really changed things for Yasu.
Now, instead than 10 tons of gold and a bomb to blast everyone she should have used something else to off 18 people once she were to realize her life wasn't a bowl of cherries.

I'm being sarcastic so it sounds mean but really, Yasu's motive should have been explained better otherwise what's said isn't enough to justify her actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
Who apologized to Yasu? Kinzo was crazy and was apologizing to Beatrice. Genji and Co seem to think the scene where Yasu is paraded up the stairs and forced to act the part of "Beatrice" as her coming into her "heritage", something to be lauded, not horrified over.
Let's recap everything. Genji though Yasu was unsafe at the Ushiromiya house so he hid her in an orphanage. Doing so he realized he took from her her family and thought this wasn't good too.

He seems to believe that the parade fixed everything as it gave back to Yasu her birthrights and her family. Even if Kinzo apologized to Beato he implied now he knew the difference between Beato and Yasu so the dressing up (which might also be merely an embellishment so we don't really know if it happened) might have been merely to underline the resemblance between Beato and Yasu.

In Japanese stories where a kid goes lost and then it's found she's often dressed like the mother (or has to do something the mother did) so that she can be compared to her and recognized.


Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka View Post
I guess you missed all the scenes in EP7 where Yasu specifically points out that no one is to blame for her situation, even Battler. Her method of coping is actually trying to think about others and how she can't "blame" them for her own pain, until it finally gets to be too much for her and she snaps. Even if the people around her "love" Yasu. Even if all the pain they put her through is unthinking and accidental... That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
I think it's more correct to say that a side of Yasu knew it wasn't Battler's fault while another found more easier to blame him.
We've too many bits in which it's said it's all Battler's fault to think Yasu completely forgave him.
Blaming Battler is also a convenient copying mechanism.
Thinking that if Battler had done something different her life could have been better gives her hope somewhere a better universe exist for her.

Bern 'set her straight' though telling her that in all the universes in which she was Yasu tragedy strike and the same would happen even in the universes in which she was Lion and she wasn't burdened by Battler's promise.

To be honest I think Bern sort of cheated as she basically implied that, in order to end up in the cat box, all the other universes had to end into tragedy so there's no way for a happy ending but, at the same time she did something interesting. She asked Lion to think at how the others were feelings.

She does all of it in a rather cruel way yet she forces Lion to face something Lion refused to look at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchwork Chimera View Post
Yasu is making a storm about silly things. Maria was trying to go on with her life. Yasu had hope about someone else coming and solving her problems. Maria had hope about being strong and live her life happily, regardless of not being able to change her mother's violence.
A nine year old tried with all her might to live, and find love for her acknowledging herself if no one was going to love her.
A nineteen year old tried to find someone who would take her away and love her. She dreamed about being acknowledged... when people like George and Jessica acknowledged her already.

I can't help but respect and later feel pity about Maria's start in the black world of witches. I can't help but facepalm when talking about Yasu's overreactions.
I agree. In Tsubasa there's a really interesting part in which Maria decides she'll try to make breakfast for her mother so that the day will start well and their relation will grow stronger. In short she takes an active stance instead than just waiting for Rosa to magically understand it.

Even when she 'uses magic' Maria tries to do it in a way that is active. She thinks that sound she makes should make things better between her and her mother because once it worked. Probably she kept trying to make it because Rosa gives mixed responses (when Rosa feels guilty because she had just hit Maria she doesn't complain anymore if she does it and gets nicer with Maria) so Maria might even think that the times Rosa complain is because she's not saying it properly.

Still, she's doing more than just waiting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard View Post
And allow me to say that calling 'Battler a moron for forgiving Yasu' is more fucked up than everything. I'm not trying to pass Yasu off as a saint, because I am perfectly aware of all the sins (I also don't think she really committed, but let's stick to PieceYasu for argument's sake) she committed.
Well, more than Battler being a moron for forgiving her is: all of sudden the game present Yasu/Beato as someone who's not at fault for what she did. Actually it's Battler who caused all of this so he's the one to blame and that has to apologize.

Of course the game might have been trying to draw a line between PieceBeato and MetaBeato.
After all it's MetaBattler who forgives MetaBeato. MetaBeato isn't killing real people as the pieces aren't real in her world so effectively it can be the only thing she's doing wrong is not explaining this clearly to Battler who seems to think each time a piece die it's a person that's killed.

However the whole message is so blurry that this interpretation isn't immediate or the only one possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard View Post
But Maria did change her mother's violence. She changed it whenever she blamed it on the bad witch, or whenever she excused her mother for neglecting her. Maria isn't really going on with her life. She 'tweaks' the sad reality into a happy one, which is kinda the opposite. Having said that, I still don't find her pitiful or stupid for that.
Undoubtely there are things that Maria is doing wrong. It's also clearly implied Maria is a girl with issues that's living a situation of abuse and neglectment that's bigger than her. her copying mechanisms aren't really perfect but I like to think that more than tweaking reality she's trying to have an optimist or Pollyanna-like approach to life most of the time.
Mama got angry and said mean things? Surely she didn't meant that it was just stress. And it can be it was just stress.
Rosa was a bad mother but this didn't necessary mean she hated Maria, just that she failed at being a mother because she chosed using a behaviour that had been used by her relatives on her.

In many cases the truth is in between. Rosa is stressed and exhasperated and doing the wrong thing. It doesn't mean there's no love at all, just that there isn't enough to help Rosa doing the right one all the time.
Rosa is, after all, weak and unstable.
Maria couldn't understand all that, she could only see that some days her mom would love her deraly and some others... she wouldn't and would try to interpret this 2 contrasting truths her own way.

Yet she always try to get along. And I think that's worth something.[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bluebeard View Post
Except what they acknowledge is nothing more than a facade Yasu puts up in order to hide her real self because she herself cannot find acceptance for it. Yasu isn't sure if they would do the same with her real self, and that's her real issue here. The fact that she is incapable of accepting herself is what renders her unable to be accepted by anyone else.
Rather true but again the blame switch on Yasu here. She dreams of being aknowledged for herself but hides herself so that the ones who'd like to get close to her... well, can't. Figuring out her true nature also means to understand she's lying and lacking in trust toward her.
In the end George is very open to her confessing her his worst sides but she can't find herself willing to do the same.
Jessica and Battler too always seem to be rather straightforward and honest and Battler seems to have quite a bunch of troubles in doubting others. So in a fashion Yasu has around himself people who're willing to trust her but whom she's unable to trust in.

Yes, she has issues so it's understable she has troubles but the point is she's the one trapping herself in this vicious circle.
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