[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Demi.

To make the west like it, you would need to completely change the franchises style. Merely adding new characters while sidelining NanoFate is not going to accomplish anything in that regard.

Oh, I don't mean that they have to sideline NanoFate or Fate. That's the problem with trying to have this conversation with you, because taking away even 30 seconds of Fate time is sidelining to you. I've said this many times already, Demi, and I'll say it again: I dont' care if Fate has the majority of screen, or if NanoFate tie the knot and go frolicking through the field every 10 ten minutes, as long as I get development of the secondary characters (or that someone of them come up to be mains, ya know, like other shows manage to do).

But, to you, focus on anyone else means less time for Fate.

If it sold badly merely because they got sick of NanoFate then it stands to reason that at least the first season or A's should have sold well. If A's couldn't sell well in the west, then what part of the Nanoha franchise could? Without completely changing it and pandering more to their needs. Which is the last thing Tsuzuki should want to do, because we're not the ones making him all the money.

You don't understand that the pedo nature turns off normal people, even normal anime fans? S1 was a bad start, which means less people tuned into A's or bothered to buy the DVDs. I've lost count of the number of youtube reviewers who reviewed the first season, outright admitted that they heard the second was much better, and yet never got around to. At last count, that was... all of them.

And by the time of StrikerS, most of who were left were pedos who got damn upset that StrikerS took their lolis away. So they drifted off to other series.

The movies are really working well for him, it's a big risk planning for a 13 or 26 episode series. Especially when the movies have been a known success.

If it was so popular and good, it would get a 4th season, though. Coming off the downturn of StrikerS, they probably allowed him to do a reboot of the first season to cash in on the rabid otaku fanboys that were left; that's a safe enough gesture.

Well, Nanoha is both popular with the merch. and the tickets purchased to watch the movie in theaters. If I want an anime to succeed then I would care about what Japan thinks, not the Western audience. Nanoha is too niche a series to be trying to pander to both populations. It's hard for a MG show to succeed in the first place when the fanbase consists mainly of males. As opposed to something like Magoka Magica where both genders love it. Nevertheless, that series too, will go down the same trend if they plan on milking the franchise beyond the three movies. They're not going to side line their star players (Madoka and Homura) for other characters. It's just not a smart move on any level.

Really? You realize Dog Days is getting a third season, and that's nothing but catgirls getting their clothes shredded. Male pandering is the surest way to get your series funded. Nanoha, pandering to mainly men instead of young girls like most MG shows, should have been damn successful, then, by your logic. It wasn't. Sailor Moon beats the pants off it in popularity, as much as I hate to admit it.

I bet it could, but why settle for something that will be less profitable than a movie? Even if the series does really well, and sells 30k per disk release, it still probably can't compete with the movie.

False dichotomy. Because, why can't you do both a movie and a series and make money off both. Dragon Ball does it. One Piece does it. Bleach did it. Fairy Tail does it.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Long-term series that must air continuously are expensive and require a steady viewership to quantify further seasons, yes. And while long-running series that go on hiatus have a hard time coming back, this is easier for "seasonic" series that have clear start and endings each season (case in point, series like Sora no Otoshimono or Dog Days). Nanoha would fall into the later category.

Bolded emphasis mine. This is probably the best proof to showcase why Nanoha has low popularity compared to other series. At least, not as popular as others might like to believe.

However, there is a big difference between an anime series an an anime movie. Quality, for example. An anime series has far lower quality standards than a movie, which means the animators spend less time and can afford to outsource many in-betweens for even lower production cost. A movie does not have that luxury, thus increased time and money are required.

Actually, an anime series can have near-movie quality... it's all in the budget. You saw the difference from S1 to A's, where it was obvious they got a higher budget. You've watched anime of varying quality, so I know you've seen ones with awesome animation and lots of action.

And think about that quality for a moment... A 12 ep series has about 6 hours of animation. A movie runs about 2 hours. So, for the same price as a 12 ep series, you can have a movie with 3x the quality. Dial that back to 2x the quality, and a movie comes out cheaper and more directly pays for itself.

Also, if you believe competition for timeslots on TV is fierce, imagine for a moment what competition for cinema halls is like. Don't be mistaken, lots of time and money go into assuring your movie hits the cinema's.

I couldn't guess as to how the competition for movie theaters lines up against TV timeslots. All I know is that a movie better pays for itself, then a series does; first with the theaters, and then in DVD/BD sales. And the movie DVDs typically go for the same price as a DVD box set of 12 episodes... so you spend less money to make the same on DVD/BD sales.

Taking out the unknown variable as far as competition goes, you can see how clearly a movie is more profitable for a studio than a series. So even if we think movie theater is more competitive, it still makes financial sense to concentrate on a movie, to gauge interest.

I'm not sure how movie theaters work in Japan, but in the states, something like 95% of ticket sale money goes to the studio on the first week. The next week, the movie theater can probably keep 10% of the profit... then 15% on the following week. But movie viewership is decreasing all the while, and movie theaters need new films constantly to keep people coming in. There are only so many movie releases, and some specialize specifically in anime. Nanoha was only shown in specific select theaters, so it didn't get the exposure it could have. Thus, theaters would see Nanoha as a good idea, once made aware of a rabid otaku fanbase that would keep coming back to watch it... and thus make the theater more money week after week.