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Originally Posted by marianx
something ive been wondering, is if beatrice is actually trying to hide the culprit. and blaming it on the witch to protect the truth. it partially makes sense to me because of the message bottles, and the 5th game where they pin natushi as the culprit.beatrice even says she will take the blame for pushing the baby off the cliff.. is this right at all?
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The manga clarified a couple of things about this.
First the messages in the bottles were sent PRIOR the 4th of October, when Sayo had no idea Rudolf and Kyrie would kill everyone so they don't aim at hiding the culprit. Sayo was hoping that someone would either find them before everything were to start and therefore stop her or that they could understand her through them.
The Beatrice in EP 5 who claims she'll take responsibility for Natsuhi is just Natsuhi's fantasy. The real MetaBeatrice is... comatose. Meanwhile on the gameboard PieceSayo is doing her hardest to pin the blame of everything on Natsuhi.
When MetaBeatrice started the games MetaBattler was suffering a total amnesia (same as Tohya) and her goal was merely to make him remember about her (it's a long story so I recommend reading chap 37 of the manga). Covering up for Rudolf and Kyrie wasn't her goal... though it could have been an added bonus as in Prime Sayo didn't feel like telling to Battler what his parents did.
So it's not like MetaBeatrice's main/sole goal is hiding the culprits... but it can entirely be she doesn't feel like revealing the truth to Battler.
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Originally Posted by Mali
One of the unclear things in the Umineko universe.
I think the meta story is more linear than you assumed.
I suppose after Tohya wrote Banquet, Ange had "jumped" from the skyscrapter, and, because it became fodder for the press, Ikuko couldn't unsaw that. The press probably shed light on her background like her life in the Academy. (the talkshows may be the source, too).
And thus it was that Tohya included Ange in Banquet and Alliance.
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Very likely Ange is neither in Tohya's versions of Banquet nor Alliance as she's not a piece in the gameboard, merely a meta character.
Ep 8 manga version implied that the people in the Meta are nothing else but souls, ence the meta isn't part of Tohya's tales but a separate "universe".
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Originally Posted by Mali
But it doesn't explain how he could included Ange's thoughts (chapter Ange's recollection).
From that perpective, it seems you're more right with your chronology line.
It is stated by "Toya" she knew a lot of Ange... they knew Ange solved many things with money, and the events showing this are part of her investigations: paying the people she interviewed. It may be reason how Tohya knew Ange's search for the truth and giving her tips.
Well, the tips say that Ange had no memory of the meeting (before her trip to Nijjima!), it is forgery, a coincidental chat/emailing with her on the web or they met on the signing event (first contact with Tohya?)
My timeline for that:
Tohya remembered the incident
EP3 - Ange's stops the signing
EP4 - Ange became Bernkastel's piece, start of Ange's journey, "met" Toja, found out what magic is, dissapeared/died on the skyscrapter
EP6 - squashed in flashback, revived for being Featherine's miko
EP7 - death
EP8 - revived
Well, the tips say that Ange had no memory of the meeting (before her trip to Nijjima!), it is forgery, a coincidental chat/emailing with her on the web or they met on the signing event. I think Ange really did the journey, but we probably could only see her piece version, adding many aspects to give out hints.
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In a way after jumping from the building Ange's soul ended up trapped in a gameboard of some sort of her own, where her piece version tried various possibilities:
going to Rokkenjima
meeting Hachijo Tohya
dying
killing Amakusa
until her true self decided her own path.
The manga confirmed that in Prime Ange really met Ikuko. The fact that in Ep 6 she has troubles remembering (as well as the bit about Amakusa planning to kill her when we know in Prime he was merely tasked to protect her) likely hints to the fact that the one we see in Ep 6 isn't Prime but a gameboard.
In fact we learn that in Prime Ange met Ikuko after Ange had collected Eva's diary and Ikuko gave her the key.
In short things went in a way that was more similar to Ep 8 than to Ep 6.
Ange's memories likely come from MetaAnge, who's nothing else but a part of Ange's soul. Ence her memory are just real memories. After all, even if they were to release details about Ange's life the memories we see are too detailed to reach the press as they are. They'll end up being speculations. But, if they're Ange's true memories they can be as true as possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marianx
another thing i was wondering just to make sure, the gold truth "i guarantee this is kinzos corpse" was used because everyone believed it? or did it have to do witha completely different rule
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More than everyone it was the truth in which Battler believed. The use of golden truth though usually requires also knowing the true truth (though not necessarily red truth and gold truth match) that's why it's a truth usually only the game master or who understood the game can use.
The gamemaster know the truth about the game. Battler's golden truth was also a red truth. Kinzo is truly dead and Battler truly believes in it.
The second golden truth about chick Beatrice using magic (Ep 6) instead run counter the red truth. For the red truth Beatrice didn't use magic but a trick, but still Beatrice despite being aware of that, can call what chick Beatrice did 'magic'.
The third Golden truth (Ep 8) which Battler uses is again a truth that matches red. He truly wrote that game for Ange and truly believes so.
The 4th Golden truth (Ep 8) used by Ange is again a golden truth that goes against the red. For the red truth Ange's family is dead, for the gold truth they're alive as Ange truly believes they're alive in her heart.