AnimeSuki Forum - View Single Post - [Game] Umineko

estdesoda · 2010-10-01, 20:10

Ok, let me type...I have not much of participation of umineko in English before, so pardon me if some of my translations of terms and names look different.

First of all, I am using the Author Theory to explain what each Episodes are. I think the Culprit (or Maria) wrote Episode 1 and 2, and Tooya (八城十八) and/or other writers wrote Episode 3~6.

Ok, then let's start my speculation.

In 1980, Kyrie (霧江) killed both Asumu (明日夢) and Battler (戦人). She did it out of jealousy, hatred and love for Rudolf (留弗夫). After Kyrie did her murder, Rudolf decided help her conceal the murder and marry her. Possible reasons of Rudolf doing this, might be because Rudolf felt that he was responsible for Kyrie becoming a murderer (Kyrie won't kill Asumu if Rudolf had married Kyrie), and maybe also because Kyrie was pregnant with Ange (縁寿) at that time.

OK. Now Battler is dead, and Rudolf wants to concealing this fact.

Rudolf and Kyrie then decided to tell everyone that Asumu died, and Battler left the family out of anger. Telling everyone that Asumu and Battler are both dead would make Kyrie look too suspicious, I suppose. So, for 6 years continuously, Rudolf and Kyrie prepares fake letter and keeps on telling everyone that Battler is alive, but just full with anger and not wanting to go back home.

Unfortunately for them, they had no clue that Battler made a promise with Shanon (紗音) = Yasu (ヤス...yeah, I think they are the same person), so they had prepared no letter for poor Shanon. This got Shanon to be curious about how Battler actually is, and send people out (probably Genji (源次)) to make contact with Battler, but Genji came back, and tell Shanon that Battler actually is dead.

Shanon was extremly sad about this. However, before the meeting in 1986, she (as a maid on the island) heard the news that Battler is coming back. She was surprised - well, she knew that Battler was dead！So who exactly is the Battler, who came on 1986？That makes the 1986 Battler a fake, deliberately prepared by Rudolf and Kyrie.

Shanon soon figured out that the 1986 Battler was a fake. She then decides to do two things: 1. Write (or have Maria write) Episode 1 and 2, and send them out by wine bottle. 2. Make sure that nobody leaves the island alive.

Why did Shanon do this? The answer is, to make Battler live eternally, in people's mind, as the hero of the Rukujima Mystery, who eternally fights with Beatrice the golden witch. The entire event of Rukujima, is Shanon's way of making everyone remember Battler forever. Eva got out the island alive in the story of Episode 3 and 7, but things are fine as she decided to ot say anything.

Who is Meta-Battler, you may ask? Well, I think Meta-Battler is an imaginary character created by Shanon, Eva, and Ange together. Shanon created Meta-Battler by writing Episode 1 and 2, Eva helped in the creation by not breaking Shanon's lie, and Ange just firmly hopes that her brother is alive and fighting with the witch like a big hero. Thus, these 3 all have the name of BEATRIX.

Now, let's check this speculation with Reds.

犯人は物語当初の登場人物以外を禁ず。
The fake Battler in 1986 isn't the Culprit. He is a fake, but not the Culprit.

戦人くんは犯人ではありませんよ。
戦人くんは誰も殺してはいません。
Yeah, Battler (fake or not) didn't kill anybody. No problem.

提示されない手掛かりでの解決を禁ず。
手掛かりなき他の登場人物への変装を禁ず。
Episode 4 hinted that there was something fishy about Battler's idendity.

俺の名は右代宮戦人。
Well, Meta-Battler said this, and his creaters (Shanon, Eva, Ange) did name him Battler.

妾は黄金の魔女、ベアトリーチェ。
そして右代宮金蔵の孫、右代宮戦人と戦うためにこのゲームを開催した。
Yeah, Beatrix created the entrie Umineko story for the sake of Battler. No problem.

右代宮戦人の母は、右代宮明日夢である。
Yep. The mother of the real Battler is Asumu.

俺の名は右代宮戦人だ。
Meta-Battler said this, and yes he was named by his creater as Battler.

右代宮戦人は、右代宮明日夢から生まれた。
Yep. The real Battler was born from Asumu. No problem.

俺は右代宮戦人だ…！
Meta-Battler said this, and yes his name is Battler.

俺は右代宮明日夢から、
Meta-Battler said this, but Asumu didn't give him birth. Shanon did.

そなたは、右代宮明日夢の息子ではない。
This is said by Beatrix to Meta-Battler, and yes Meta-Battler isn't Asumu's son.

右代宮戦人は右代宮明日夢の息子ではないわ。
Remember the previous red of 右代宮戦人の母は、右代宮明日夢である。 ? For these two reds to both be true, I can only guess that there are two Battlers, one has Asumu as the mother, but not the other one.

………縁寿は、……俺の妹だ。
Meta-Battler said this, and Ange did create him as the heroic big brother who fights with the evil witch on island, so yes Ange is Meta-Battler's little sister.

………右代宮戦人。今から私が、あなたを殺します。
Beatrix said this to Meta-Battler. I explain this as Beatrix decalring that she is going to make another Episode of story, that has Battler failed to defeat the evil golden witch, and not coming back from the island.

………そしてたった今。この島にはあなた以外誰もいません。この島で生きているのは、あなただけです。島の外の存在は一切干渉できません。
This red was spoken in the Meta-world. I say that this means that, in this story, created by Beatrix (or the author of EP 4), has progressed to the stage that every other characters of the story on island have died. Nobody else that's not in the story (not on the island) could interfere with him.

………この島にあなたはたった一人。そしてもちろん、私はあなたではない。なのに私は今、ここにいて、これからあなたを殺します。
The EP4 story had progressed to the stage in which everyone else other than Battler had died. Of course, Beatrix (the writer) isn't the same as Battler, and Beatrix (the writer), now, is going to kill Battler again, by writing out the ending of "Battler did not come back from island" again.

このゲームに、ハッピーエンドは与えない。
The real Battler was dead, so there is no happy ending.

「幻は、幻に。約束された死神は、魔女の意思を問わずに、物語に幕を下ろす。」
Battler is dead. This truth doesn't change regardless of how the witch thinks or hopes, and so every story must say "Battler did not come back from the island".

(戦人に対し)そなたは無能だ！
This was said by Beatrix to Meta-Battler. Meta-Battler is powerless because he can't win (he was written, or created to fight enternally, not to win).

そなたは妾の一番のお気に入りの家具にしてやるよ。
そなたを愛して愛して、灰になるまで妾の玩具にしてやるよ…。
This was said by Beatrix to Meta-Battler, and yes Meta-Battler, accoring to my theory, IS the most beloved toy of the golden witch.

妾は約束は守る。
Shanon had created the umineko story, so that the promise between the real Battler and Shanon could have been kept.

ベアトは、あなたに解いて欲しいと願って、解けるようにこのゲームを、……この物語の謎を生み出しました。
Yep. Beatrix made the game so that Meta-Battler could try to solve it.

これまでのあなたは探偵デシタ！
Dlanor (ドラノール) said this to Meta-Battler. Yeah, Meta-Battler was a dectective previously.

So, in a way, I am saying that there are 3 Battlers.

Battler No.1：Born by Asumu, killed by Kyrie.

Battler No.2：Meta-Battler, created by Beatrix.

Battler No.3：A fake, prepared by Kyrie and Rudolf to go on the island in 1986.
The reds in Episode 3 about Battler refers to him, this fake guy. He can be called as Battler, because the true Battler's father had decided to make him Battler.

What does this speculation do?

It answers the motivation of Yasu. It explains where このゲームに、ハッピーエンドは与えない came from. It shows how Battler was both born from Asumu and not born from Asumu. It also explains why Battler seems to have "forgot" his promise with Shanon - well, dead people can hardly keep their promises.

Er, why did Rudolf and Kyrie prepared a fake?

Well..maybe Kinzo was angry that Battler leaving the family, and made some huge cut to the amount of money that Rudolf could inherit. Rufold and Kyrie did this, to hire a fake Battler to please Kinzo, so that they can get more money.

2010-10-01, 20:10	Link #17833
estdesoda Member Join Date: Oct 2010	Ok, let me type...I have not much of participation of umineko in English before, so pardon me if some of my translations of terms and names look different. First of all, I am using the Author Theory to explain what each Episodes are. I think the Culprit (or Maria) wrote Episode 1 and 2, and Tooya (八城十八) and/or other writers wrote Episode 3~6. Ok, then let's start my speculation. In 1980, Kyrie (霧江) killed both Asumu (明日夢) and Battler (戦人). She did it out of jealousy, hatred and love for Rudolf (留弗夫). After Kyrie did her murder, Rudolf decided help her conceal the murder and marry her. Possible reasons of Rudolf doing this, might be because Rudolf felt that he was responsible for Kyrie becoming a murderer (Kyrie won't kill Asumu if Rudolf had married Kyrie), and maybe also because Kyrie was pregnant with Ange (縁寿) at that time. OK. Now Battler is dead, and Rudolf wants to concealing this fact. Rudolf and Kyrie then decided to tell everyone that Asumu died, and Battler left the family out of anger. Telling everyone that Asumu and Battler are both dead would make Kyrie look too suspicious, I suppose. So, for 6 years continuously, Rudolf and Kyrie prepares fake letter and keeps on telling everyone that Battler is alive, but just full with anger and not wanting to go back home. Unfortunately for them, they had no clue that Battler made a promise with Shanon (紗音) = Yasu (ヤス...yeah, I think they are the same person), so they had prepared no letter for poor Shanon. This got Shanon to be curious about how Battler actually is, and send people out (probably Genji (源次)) to make contact with Battler, but Genji came back, and tell Shanon that Battler actually is dead. Shanon was extremly sad about this. However, before the meeting in 1986, she (as a maid on the island) heard the news that Battler is coming back. She was surprised - well, she knew that Battler was dead！So who exactly is the Battler, who came on 1986？That makes the 1986 Battler a fake, deliberately prepared by Rudolf and Kyrie. Shanon soon figured out that the 1986 Battler was a fake. She then decides to do two things: 1. Write (or have Maria write) Episode 1 and 2, and send them out by wine bottle. 2. Make sure that nobody leaves the island alive. Why did Shanon do this? The answer is, to make Battler live eternally, in people's mind, as the hero of the Rukujima Mystery, who eternally fights with Beatrice the golden witch. The entire event of Rukujima, is Shanon's way of making everyone remember Battler forever. Eva got out the island alive in the story of Episode 3 and 7, but things are fine as she decided to ot say anything. Who is Meta-Battler, you may ask? Well, I think Meta-Battler is an imaginary character created by Shanon, Eva, and Ange together. Shanon created Meta-Battler by writing Episode 1 and 2, Eva helped in the creation by not breaking Shanon's lie, and Ange just firmly hopes that her brother is alive and fighting with the witch like a big hero. Thus, these 3 all have the name of BEATRIX. Now, let's check this speculation with Reds. 犯人は物語当初の登場人物以外を禁ず。 The fake Battler in 1986 isn't the Culprit. He is a fake, but not the Culprit. 戦人くんは犯人ではありませんよ。戦人くんは誰も殺してはいません。 Yeah, Battler (fake or not) didn't kill anybody. No problem. 提示されない手掛かりでの解決を禁ず。手掛かりなき他の登場人物への変装を禁ず。 Episode 4 hinted that there was something fishy about Battler's idendity. 俺の名は右代宮戦人。 Well, Meta-Battler said this, and his creaters (Shanon, Eva, Ange) did name him Battler. 妾は黄金の魔女、ベアトリーチェ。そして右代宮金蔵の孫、右代宮戦人と戦うためにこのゲームを開催した。 Yeah, Beatrix created the entrie Umineko story for the sake of Battler. No problem. 右代宮戦人の母は、右代宮明日夢である。 Yep. The mother of the real Battler is Asumu. 俺の名は右代宮戦人だ。 Meta-Battler said this, and yes he was named by his creater as Battler. 右代宮戦人は、右代宮明日夢から生まれた。 Yep. The real Battler was born from Asumu. No problem. 俺は右代宮戦人だ…！ Meta-Battler said this, and yes his name is Battler. 俺は右代宮明日夢から、 Meta-Battler said this, but Asumu didn't give him birth. Shanon did. そなたは、右代宮明日夢の息子ではない。 This is said by Beatrix to Meta-Battler, and yes Meta-Battler isn't Asumu's son. 右代宮戦人は右代宮明日夢の息子ではないわ。 Remember the previous red of 右代宮戦人の母は、右代宮明日夢である。 ? For these two reds to both be true, I can only guess that there are two Battlers, one has Asumu as the mother, but not the other one. ………縁寿は、……俺の妹だ。 Meta-Battler said this, and Ange did create him as the heroic big brother who fights with the evil witch on island, so yes Ange is Meta-Battler's little sister. ………右代宮戦人。今から私が、あなたを殺します。 Beatrix said this to Meta-Battler. I explain this as Beatrix decalring that she is going to make another Episode of story, that has Battler failed to defeat the evil golden witch, and not coming back from the island. ………そしてたった今。この島にはあなた以外誰もいません。この島で生きているのは、あなただけです。島の外の存在は一切干渉できません。 This red was spoken in the Meta-world. I say that this means that, in this story, created by Beatrix (or the author of EP 4), has progressed to the stage that every other characters of the story on island have died. Nobody else that's not in the story (not on the island) could interfere with him. ………この島にあなたはたった一人。そしてもちろん、私はあなたではない。なのに私は今、ここにいて、これからあなたを殺します。 The EP4 story had progressed to the stage in which everyone else other than Battler had died. Of course, Beatrix (the writer) isn't the same as Battler, and Beatrix (the writer), now, is going to kill Battler again, by writing out the ending of "Battler did not come back from island" again. このゲームに、ハッピーエンドは与えない。 The real Battler was dead, so there is no happy ending. 「幻は、幻に。約束された死神は、魔女の意思を問わずに、物語に幕を下ろす。」 Battler is dead. This truth doesn't change regardless of how the witch thinks or hopes, and so every story must say "Battler did not come back from the island". (戦人に対し)そなたは無能だ！ This was said by Beatrix to Meta-Battler. Meta-Battler is powerless because he can't win (he was written, or created to fight enternally, not to win). そなたは妾の一番のお気に入りの家具にしてやるよ。そなたを愛して愛して、灰になるまで妾の玩具にしてやるよ…。 This was said by Beatrix to Meta-Battler, and yes Meta-Battler, accoring to my theory, IS the most beloved toy of the golden witch. 妾は約束は守る。 Shanon had created the umineko story, so that the promise between the real Battler and Shanon could have been kept. ベアトは、あなたに解いて欲しいと願って、解けるようにこのゲームを、……この物語の謎を生み出しました。 Yep. Beatrix made the game so that Meta-Battler could try to solve it. これまでのあなたは探偵デシタ！ Dlanor (ドラノール) said this to Meta-Battler. Yeah, Meta-Battler was a dectective previously. So, in a way, I am saying that there are 3 Battlers. Battler No.1：Born by Asumu, killed by Kyrie. Battler No.2：Meta-Battler, created by Beatrix. Battler No.3：A fake, prepared by Kyrie and Rudolf to go on the island in 1986. The reds in Episode 3 about Battler refers to him, this fake guy. He can be called as Battler, because the true Battler's father had decided to make him Battler. What does this speculation do? It answers the motivation of Yasu. It explains where このゲームに、ハッピーエンドは与えない came from. It shows how Battler was both born from Asumu and not born from Asumu. It also explains why Battler seems to have "forgot" his promise with Shanon - well, dead people can hardly keep their promises. Er, why did Rudolf and Kyrie prepared a fake? Well..maybe Kinzo was angry that Battler leaving the family, and made some huge cut to the amount of money that Rudolf could inherit. Rufold and Kyrie did this, to hire a fake Battler to please Kinzo, so that they can get more money.