[Mentar]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Please behave...

Please don't feel insulted, but did you mods recently have a meeting to turn Animesuki into Nannyboards? If so, then please say so openly, so that I can leave for greener pastures. I've been here for 8 years, and there's always been tolerance for a mild level of flaming, which is important to have interesting discussions with a certain degree of emotionality, as long as things don't get out of hand. That's why I've chosen AS as my primary anime forum. Recently the AS mods seem to be moving this threshold to an emotionless state, and I have to admit that I find this increasingly irritating. Just some feedback from a veteran.

What the three jealous girls did was wrong, and they sure deserved a talking to. But Tsukasa also took it too far and let herself be carried away. She let herself flip so completely that she lost control.

I don't think that this is the right term. The verbal whiplash was completely controlled. This is not the manga, mind you.

And this is actually the problem that Junichi was confronting her about: the "real Tsukasa" is always in control, and now she's out of control. The "real Tsukasa" does whatever it takes to be successful; this Tsukasa is just digging her own grave.

But this is NOT the "real Tsukasa". This is the FACADE. This is the whole point. Your "real Tsukasa" is the PROBLEM, not the solution.

And in fact, she knows what she needs to do, but she won't do it because she's letting her pride and emotions get in her way. Yes, those are part of her honest feelings, but they're also a part of her immaturity.

NO, exactly wrong. Ayatsuji does NOT feel that they deserve an apology, and neither do I. Neither do Kaoru and Umehara. Ayatsuji's "Inner", true personality feels that they deserve a tonguelashing, so that's what she gave them. Naturally you're free to argue that it would be "better" not to slam them so hard, as in it would be more mature to restrict yourself some more. But that's not how Inner Ayatsuji is, at the moment.

And since these three girls do NOT deserve an apology, doing that merely in order to enlist their help would be extremely hypocritical. Junichi's suggestion was objectively terrible advice in my book the way he meant it, and it was catastrophic in the way she took it.

She needs to put those emotions to death just as much as her facade if she's truly going to be honest with herself and others -- and that's the goal.

Hardly. Putting emotions "to death" is a hopeless concept, as much as putting love or hate "to death" is. It doesn't work within the bounds of sanity. No way. What you can try to do is control them, mask them. Ayatsuji perfected that, and look where it led her. Besides, you do realize that you're contradicting yourself here, right? In the paragraph above you argue that the conciliatory approach is part of her "honest feelings", here you want her to put those "honest feelings" to death.

If Ayatsuji wants to find happiness, she first needs to find the confidence that her "Inner" personality is accepted. And the anime took pains to MAKE CLEAR that this is the case. Kaoru and Umehara smiled when she tonguelashed the three bitches. They were angry at the bullying during sport and joined team with her. They stayed into the night to work together with her. She needs to accept that she can be honest and genuine and STILL have friends. Not that she should go back and adopt the Facade.

"But Tsukasa was in such a heightened emotional state that she couldn't understand what Junichi was trying to tell her: I want you to meet your goals; I want you to succeed; I'll be here to help you do whatever it takes."

She needs to let go of these goals. That's the thing.

Look where her goals have led her. She is clearly unsatisfied with her life. During her confession, she made very clear how much she preferred being with Junichi WITHOUT the Facade, and that she wanted to stay this way, with him, forever. So, at least for now she should concentrate on settling in with her true Inner self, and that won't work without adjustments. Without the Facade, she'll be less efficient, so it would be better to shed the extra baggage in the first place.

In other words, her priorities are wrong. If she wants to become truly happy, and be the person she is, she needs to let go not only of Miss Perfect, but also of Miss Perfect's overblown ambitions. At least until she is stable and confident enough in herself to carefully reapply parts of the Facade which society knows as "politeness and tact".

All she took it as is "you don't love me the way I really am, so I need to change". (This is a typical dispute between couples though; what she wanted was for him to just be there for her without saying a word, but he was trying to "solve the problem"... and she took it as though "the problem" was her... not without reason, granted.)

Not "need to change" as in "adjust", but rather in "revert". Junichi's terrible advice clearly indicated to her that what he always admired was her FACADE, not her Inner personality. He didn't understand that shedding these manipulative techniques was Part of her healing, of her attempt to be honest. Rewatch the scene - he was not critical about what she said in a "I think you were too harsh and said too much" manner, but merely as a tool to get the Three Bitches to work some more.

No, Junichi did NOT understand Tsukasa at all. He meant well, but he involuntarily did alot of damage. And as the result proved, the girl he came to love was the Inner Ayatsuji, not the Facade.

So anyway rather than think of this as an "inner self" and an "outer self", think about Tsukasa's ideal self: someone who's hard-working and driven, but is able to keep her pride and selfishness in check. Someone who is honest with herself and with others. Someone who doesn't have to hide behind any facades anymore. That isn't the "selfish Tsukasa" anymore than it's the "I'll-do-anything-to-please-you Tsukasa".

That's not where I see this story go, no. Again, emotions are what they are. It's nearly impossible not to have "any" facade. Politeness and self-control are a facade aswell. The "ideal self" would be Tsukasa with the self-esteem to fully identify with her Inner personality, yet with the ability to use her Facade at will. To be honest, this would be a killer combo, and pretty scary and sexy at the same time

Anyway, we'll have to wait for episode 4. My advice would be: Learn to be yourself, even if it costs you some influence/power. And relax with these "gotta excel at everything" goals, they were only shallow surrogate goals which made you unhappy.

Of course, the change in personality shown at the end of the show isn't for the better, but it's not because she apologized, it's because she's not being honest with herself.

Exactly. I'm kinda glad that we're agreed THERE at least.

She's wearing a facade that's even more thickly applied than ever, so much so that she doesn't even want to let Junichi inside anymore.

Nope, it's even worse than that. It's not that she merely doesn't want to let Junichi inside - she still acted cutely towards him and was hoping for a kiss. So, she wants to maintain their relationship, and she thinks that in order to do this SHE NEEDS TO BECOME THE FACADE HE PREFERS. "This obstinate girl doesn't exist anymore", followed by a giggle. This is NOT the "old" Ayatsuji, just with Junichi shut out too. This is a self-denying wreck.

But he just has to open a crack through her facade one more time and let her know that she's not a bad person and that he'll help her through her struggles. When she can bring her personality into balance, she'll be "healed".

I disagree. For now, she needs no balance, she needs self-esteem. The Inner Ayatsuji needs confirmation and acceptance, that is the top priority. What Junichi needs to convey to her is that he fell in love with the "bad person" as you put it, and not with the Facade. And that he wants to "bad person" back.