[sneaker]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

The reasons why there was no ghettoes in the 50s, was because all the ethnic minorities were wiped out by nationalist ethnic cleansing in the half century prior to that. And this goes for all of Europe, not just Germany. Like here.

Yes, in a homogeneous environment you don't have the problem you have in a multi-cultural one. That's pretty much my whole point. And it's not like Germany was full of Ghettos before the Nazis or the Kaiser.

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

And I assure you there was plenty of crime in the 50s, in Europe more so due to the poverty that existed during reconstruction.

Yes, we also had crime. But it didn't have the same quality as now. Just recently fireman rescuing a woman were attacked by a mob of Muslims in Berlin. And it wasn't the first time - these attacks are getting pretty common now. Those problems are new and only related to the Muslim immigration we've seen during the last decades.

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

I think the problem is not immigration, it's poverty among the immigrants, and poverty always has been and always will be a problem. I think the solution is to improve economic opportunities, not to cut immigration.

But how do you make them take their chances? They simply don't, although we give them the opportunity. You have plenty of chances to go to school and even study at college even if your parents are workless. But if they don't work for school they'll never make it. In their culture it does not matter - family is important, not working for school. That's a huge problem.
The Vietnamese immigrants here are equally educated as the Turkish immigrants here (i.e.: uneducated). But that's only the first generation. Starting with the second(!) generation the Vietnamese surpass the native population in terms of success in school, while the Turkish seem to get worse and worse with each generation.

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

What the problem with tolerance? I think the past 100 years of European history shows where intolerance leads. We make American Racism look mild.

Slavery compared to the Holocaust?
I don't think tolerance is a problem in general, it's just that we've gone overboard and tend to turn a blind eye to errors in the immigrants culture. We won't solve anything that way.

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Where I am we all thought it was a good idea, there are still some issues to be ironed out, but I still think it's great economically, encourages crossborder trade and tourism.

People here were happy with the German Mark and they feared having to pay for the other countries, which all politicians outright denied, because the contracts forbid it. Ten years later we know these contracts were worth shit and we already poured in money for Greece, Ireland and ......

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

And I think this will only serve to further alienate muslim minorities in Switzerland and actually make things worse.

Muslims won't stop demanding more and more rights. I don't think they are compatible with our society.

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

I think the native population is more at fault then you think, immigrants are always a minority, and usually only choose to turn inwards if they feel their surroundings are hostile.

That's what I mean by the tolerance they teach us. We were brought up to only seek our errors. Self-criticism is unkown in the Muslim world.
That's why they kill people when someone burns a Koran thousands of miles away and we criticize the one who burned it. That's if you live in the US. In some European countries you might have to fear prison (sooner or later).

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

These problems are not uniquely German, but this kind of scaremongering about Muslims is exactly like so many other scapegoating racist diatribes that have existed prior to now. Obviously there are anti-semitic problems among muslims, and it shouldn't be condoned, but we're doing the exact same thing to muslims, 99% of whom harm no one.

So, what exactly are we doing to Muslims? Do our kids roam the streets, beating up and robbing Muslims. Do we rape their women? Do we teach our children that Muslims are worth shit and that only Christians are worth living? Do our preachers teach hatred towards Islam?
I strongly disagree, we treat them way better than they treat us.

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Actually Jews and Gypsies were never present in the same numbers as those from the middle east are today.

And not to forget that they didn't migrate within a short amount of time. That's one of the reasons for the conflicts: huuge waves of immigration in a very short amount of time. This is probably something that has never happened on this scale in the history of humanity before.