[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

What goes on inside of a person's mind isn't as complex as his physical actions? <SNIP>
Also, Rau was very complicated...<SNIP>

Cerridwen, you seem to have a very strange definition of complicated.

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Really, these questions you're throwing back at me are very simple in the CE sense. It's either Lacus or go broke. That's just that.

By this same logic, you can boil most the stories in the world to "Hero defeats Villain". This kind of minimalism is rather nonsensical and impotent without supporting reasoning.

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Oh take away Fllay's bitchy side, exchange manipulative nature into GODDESS nature, make her a Mary Sue (I think they also reversed Fllay's hotness to Lacus'...um...so so-ness)...and voila! You have Lacus!
I was being sarcastic. Lacus simply has no character at all. She's just static.

Pshaw.

Originally Posted by kodachrome

I know you hate my one line replies like that, but seriously... off the top of my head, the entire series is the best short answer I can give you.

You know, you could give a few examples instead. Or at least put some paragraph breaks in there. Generally, the use of flippant remarks is a sign indicating a lack of critical thinking faculties.

Originally Posted by kodachrome

It starts off as very blatant: Lacus, the accepter of all, and Fllay, a tool of discrimination reflecting her fathers bias with the Earth Alliance. That scene contrasts them VERY well AND makes Lacus look like the "Good guy" because she isbeing so PEACEFUL AND HAPPY AND CUTE and Fllay is being SO MEAN AND CRUEL AND HISSY about her being a Coordinator.

You're overlooking the fact that the primary trait displayed by both of them at the beginning is naivete. They're both kids, and they are presented as such. Also, only the unobservant would interpret Fllay's attitude simply as "mean" or "cruel", at least early on. Oh well, it was a good try.

Originally Posted by kodachrome

Then, the contrast gradually grows with a few peaks in the middle, until the very last episode when Fllay dies and only Kira notices and Lacus lives with her faction on top with a lot of people noticing her and her words. In a way, Fllay is this kind of forgotten person. This is characterized by her fathers death - people who say, "You were George Allster's daughter?" labeling her as that, and her mental deterioration from the manipulation of Kira to Klueze turning the manipulation and convinced her everyone thought she was dead (she thought she was forgotten to the people who she cared about thinking she was alive) as well as Kira only remembering her when he sees her lipstick on the floor (her existance is summarized by a thing of lipstick and not her herself). While Lacus remains the ever loud (loud as in... you know she's there...) evidence of power and strength, who has her control much firmer than Fllay.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. This entire passage doesn't seem to have any coherent arguments.

Originally Posted by kodachrome

A big part where they are foils, and where you see them contrast, is how Lacus is able to control so much more fluidly than Fllay. Or more specifically, their manipulation of Kira. Kira makes them the same promise - I will carry your thoughts onto the battle field. And he does, and Lacus ultimately wins there. Lacus's victory of the manipulation of Kira contrasts Fllay's not-victory of the manipulation of Kira. Fllay might've "won" for a while, but Fllay lost her grip when she thought Kira was pitying her in the episode where he was trying to avoid asking his parents in ORB why they made him a Coordinator. He saw through her at that moment, got a little freaked out, and they parted ways. You could argue that Lacus was not manipulating Kira, but when you consider she also handed him a Gundam, I'd say you have a weak argument against the thought of her trying to manipulate something. It's like it's your birthday and you say, "Well, I MIGHT want this or that, but you know..." I mean, come on, how more obvious and not-vague can you be? She was ultimately manipulating Kira back into kind of a fighting spirit, to go rescue his friends, but at teh same time, she was instigating something.

I could say that While Fllay tried to manipulate Kira, that's not the essence of her character. Or I could go on about how Lacus didn't really manipulate Kira. And I could show how tenuous this connection is, but none of this is necessary.

The purpose of a character foil is to emphasize a character trait through contrast. Thus, it is essential that the primary character still exhibits (or will exhibit in the near future) the trait being contrasted. However, after Kira "died", Fllay changed. In fact, she changed so much that she no longer bore the trait of "manipulative". So how can Lacus help to emphasize a trait that the primary character no longer has?

Originally Posted by kodachrome

By giving Kira Freedom, she kind of instigated the end of the war. Fllay does too contribute to the instigation of the end of the war when she very willingly (and also very naive...) accepts the disk from Klueze and goes to deliver it to Azrael, thinking it would end the war. Obviously it doesn't: It just incites more flames and the firing of GENESIS, and that is another excellent point where they contrast. Fllay's attempt/effort to the end of the war lead to more destruction, while Lacus's attempt/effort to end it lead to the actual end.

kodachrome, you would have been more successful if you said "Fllay and Lacus are both girls." Seriously, you're just grasping at straws here.

Originally Posted by kodachrome

Notably, people who don't like Fllay, Meer, and Shinn, often name things things that make them realistic as things they dislike about those characters.

You may be surprised. People may not like these characters because they dislike and can recognize that type of person in real life. Simply put, realistic != likable.

Your last passage doesn't address the issue of foils at all. To summarize, if you want to compare and contrast Lacus and Fllay, feel free to do so. It's a worthy endeavour, and you might learn some useful insights. If you want to claim that they are character foils, then you're going to need some better supporting logic.