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Originally Posted by relentlessflame
Okay, but that's basically the Evangelion definition of "fanservice" (so oft promised in the next episode preview, and so little relevant to the plot itself). It's not like it's something new or recent. These "fanservice" elements are not necessarily enjoyed by everyone, but they are enjoyed by some; they help spice up the show a bit.
So what's the argument? "Shows these days include fanservice I don't like and consider unnecessary; I think the shows would be better if they didn't include this sort of irrelevant fanservice."? But it stands to reason that they include these elements because other people do like it (and for adaptations they might have been in the source), so we're sort of net neutral at best.
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That may not be the best example, since the fanservice promised in Evangelion so often failed to materialize. And when it did it
was plot relevant- and very often fan disservice. Where people really excited about the Rei fanservice when she reacted like an emotionless doll? I found it rather creepy myself. Or when Asuka was being Mind Raped did people really think that was fanservice?
Besides, this isn't really limited to fanservice. The problem isn't that people aren't buying stuff that they want. It's that certain fans will buy anything that has a few of their favorite elements in it, and so adding those things attracts more customers, and so those of us who don't care for that stuff are left in the cold.
The only solution is to refuse to buy stuff in your favorite genre that has been polluted by the crap you don't like.
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Originally Posted by Ithekro
On interesting example of fanservice vs moe would be Full Metal Panic (which can likely be considered to use both). In the first series done by GONZO, there is a bunch of awkwardly used panty shots and flashes from time to time. In the later KyoAni produced series, these seem to be gone. However the fanservice is not gone from the KyoAni shows, just altered in how it is delivered. They instead go for situational tease over random flash (hot springs and summer beaches over random wind or awkward angles). They also decided to throw in the moe by using Tessa's clumbiness for added effect.
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Yes, it was integrated much better. And more importantly, sequestered. The heavy use of these elements occurred in an episodic selection of stories that had little effect on the main plotline. Essentially if you want to you can cut out almost all of the moe and fanservice episodes from the first KyoAni season and still have a viewable and coherent storyline. You can't do that with the panty shots in the Gonzo season.
The second KyoAni season lacked most of those elements from what I can remember. Sure there was some fanservice, but of the plot driven (and rather emotionally disturbing) nature.