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Old 2009-05-08, 01:10   Link #8
morbosfist
Spinning Lotus
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
That may be true, but Schneizel still made Lelouch get the "OMFG! WTF?!" Face twice (in the same episode too.) By moving faster than he thought he would, and then by actually having Nunnally alive and well. He totally played Lelouch there.
The first was not so "OMG, WTF" as it was "damn, too slow." The second, I'll give you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Ougi was just the final straw on the matter. Schneizel would have won them over eventually even without the added help, I have no doubt about that. And the load? Pfft. Schneizel was very convincing. Especially when he got out the whole what I like to call the "Geass Papers" on all the possible people he Geassed. And it all made sense when they started to put two and two together. Even Toudou was getting shaken and Cornelia made them all doubt Deithard there by throwing out that Deithard already knew about a bunch of information that he got from Villetta and Jeremiah on the matter in S1. Schneizel had them there. It was all him, even Lelouch knew it was well played.
Ohgi wasn't the final straw, he was the man pulling the straws. The others were not buying into Schneizel's claims. Then Ohgi comes in and they start falling into line. Without Ohgi, he'd have had a much harder time with it, if he succeeded at all. It's a hell of a thing to get them to turn on their leader, but he had a man on the inside doing half the work and didn't even know it. At the very least, they would not have been so gung ho about murdering him without an explanation.

By the time Schneizel pulled out the "Geass Papers" (neat name), they had pretty much been sold already. They were too irrational to take a good look and realize these people were just guessing. "Pretty pictures" and all. Diethard played off his association very quickly, and they don't bring it up again, just like they don't bring up that Ohgi's consorting with a Britannian soldier in front of them (it amazes me to no end that not one person even thinks to call him on that relationship).

Lelouch knew he was screwed when he saw Schneizel, but lacking knowledge of what happened he just assumed that Schneizel convinced them. Schneizel is convincing, sure, and it's probably 50/50 or better that he would have won them over anyway, but Ohgi seriously tipped those scales from "rational removal from power" to "kill the bastard at any cost."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Oh, I agree there. Schneizel wouldn't think twice about tossing away lives (even his own) if it will save a larger scale of them. Heck, when he knew Lelouch won he was ready to die, take Lelouch with him, and end everything once and for all and peace could really reign. (Till Lelouch Geassed him of course.)
He was never going to throw away his life so readily, at least not until that was the final option. Death was just inevitable at that point, or so he thought, and he rolled with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Ahh, I kinda agree and disagree. Ozymandias didn't make the world hate himself, and he didn't get any punishment for what he did (Lelouch on the other hand did.) Schneizel is just as callous as Ozy and just as detactched when it comes to human lives. They both see them as needed sacrifices and nothing more. Lelouch sees those sacrifices as something more than what they do. Though Lelouch is also like Ozy as well.

Although Schneizel isn't completely callous. He could have easily of killed off Cornelia, but he didn't. He also didn't want to be greedy and wipe out the BK's with a FLEIA warhead when he very well could have.
Sure, Ozymandias dodged the bullet, so to speak, but the substance is the same. Ozy did see those deaths as necessary (people respond well to mass murder), as did Lelouch in killing thousands of soldiers to secure Damocles, not to mention his rule after that. People get the message that way. With Schneizel, the death itself is the message: "I did this and I can do it again."

That second part seems more a matter of pride than actually caring. Their lives didn't mean anything to him, since he shot at the Avalon when they were aboard it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
Now you see, here I disagree. I see Schneizel as doing it because he feels that it HAS to be done and that he, being a man of power, has to do it even if he doesn't want too. He watched his father ignore current affairs and delve into the Occult while Schneizel had to watch and fight wars and run a superpower for his father who never took responsibility with his power. He had no desire to run the world (and Lelouch obviously knew that too since he knew what his brother was going to say when he made that recording.)
I still say it takes some desire, or he wouldn't have been plotting against Charles back in season 1. Same with Lelouch. His actions were motivated by a desire. He wanted a change and had to be the one to make it happen.
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