[Sunder the Gold]

Originally Posted by Keroko

She doesn't tell Raising Heart not to help her, just to return to gem mode. There's a difference.

Given that it's called Stand By mode, and given that physical forms DO have an impact on spell-casting ability (such as the difference between Accel Mode and Buster Mode, or Axe Form and Hakken Form), I'd say that it means RH wasn't helping at all.

The one thing that might seriously contradict this possiblity is how Yuuno attempted to use RH to seal that jewel seed monster. It's in stand by gem mode, but the writers were probably thinking, "Nah, let's not reveal the staff until Nanoha activates it." That is, rule of Cool rather than Consistency.

So yeah, it's easy to point at inherent equipment and call it a flaw, but it goes both ways.

The advantages of Inherent Skills (compared to Inherent Equipment) are analogous to the advantages of the new Hybrid-Intelligent Devices that Vivio, Rio and Einhart are using.

Those Devices can physically merge with their users like Unison Devices, sacrificing a physical form that could be used as a weapon or external focus in order to concentrate on improving their master's physical and magical performance, and the performance of their barrier jacket.

Mages who use such Devices cannot be disarmed of their abilities without enough damage to put them out of the fight anyway, and on top of that, they can still pick up and use non-device weapons or equipment and use those, because their hands are free.

Yeah, there's a difference, but what exactly those differences are we can only guess at.

Are you saying those hints on the wiki are mere assumptions?

Bar Hayate who got hers from Reinforce, that is pure speculation. Neither Carim nor Accous were ever confirmed to be genetically engineered to my knowledge.

Of course not, because they inherited it. But they inherited it for the same reason that Olivie Segbercht inherited her powers and Vivio inherited it from her -- because the Belkan lords were genetically modifying themselves and biologically engineering their bloodlines in order to gain additional power.

the cyborgs are genetically modified to be different from the very start. It's a necessary procedure to allow the body to handle the cybernetic enhancements without the piles and piles of complications that come with it (body rejecting enhancements, the upgrades being too much for the body etc. etc.)

I think I read once, on the fanfiction.net Nanoha forum, that the Numbers are all constantly in Combat Cyborg mode, whereas Ginga and Subaru cannot survive doing so.

The reason being heat; the human body isn't designed for the heat the cyborg energy source produces. Thus, Combat Mode is Dangerous Overclocking for the Type 0's, as well as something that threatened to reveal their true natures.

Jail solved this problem with the Numbers by genetically lowering the rate at which their biological systems produced heat, letting the constant running of their mechanical powersource keep their bodies at a survivable temperature.

Again, this may have no actual canonical basis, but it sounds pretty plausible.

Heck, a famous or powerful mage can't even be cloned at all, the questions would just come the minute he shows his face.

Point well-taken.

I'm not sure what Zests plan was with his usage of cyborgs

You mean Regius Gaiz.

but Subaru managed to keep her cyborginess hidden for a long time. Erio and Caro didn't know anything until after she went berserk.

The Numbers were also probably more Proof of Concept than meant for public release, too.

Still, the place you'd most want to station combat cyborgs would be the assignments that also have the highest chance of injury. And injury is exactly how Subaru was outted as a cyborg, since it exposed her mechanical innards.

Alternatively, the TSAB brains and Regius already had a plan in place to change public opinion regarding cybernetic technology.

Perhaps have Jail "arrested" or one of his labs "seized", and then the TSAB scientists who go over the data realize that, whatever crimes Jail committed to arrive at this point, they can confirm that the technology is now safe and humane.

(Well, as humane as "create babies specifically intended to be soldiers or hazard-workers" can be. That would require a LOOOOOOT more propaganda.)

(Or near-extinction at the hands of the Covenant; but I don't think Orbital Naval Intelligence ever fully revealed the truth of the SPARTAN II soldiers' origins as abducted children.)

Ginga was rambling on specifically about how inefficient artificial mages were shortly after they found Vivio, noting how costly it was and that it had a low succes rate. Fate, Erio and Vivio were lucky ones, in Vivio's case even a confirmed "one success in countless tries." Zest is a demonstration of what's somewhat closer to the norm.

Fate and Erio might be luckier than it seems. What if they're just the first clones of their respective donors that SURVIVED?

And "one success in countless tries" sounds like a looooot of aborted Vivio corpses.

Cheery thought, that. And probably WHY the cloning technology is illegal.

Maybe the process of making a single Artificial Mage is cheaper than a Cyborg Cyborg, but the real source of the expensive / cost ineffectiveness is that you likely have to make MULTIPLE Artificial Mages before you get even one success, whereas the Combat Cyborg creation process is far more reliable.

So, CC production isn't necessarily cheaper -- it's just that you get more of your money's worth out of it.


But here's a thought -- even just the "imperfect" cloning techniques used for Combat Cyborgs seems like it can reliably produce viable mages. Just look at Ginga, Subaru and Nove, all imprecise clones of the same AA class combat mage.

Precise cloning is terribly expensive, but imprecise cloning PLUS combat cyborg engineering is considered more cost efficient.

So, imprecise cloning WITHOUT cyborg genetic/mechanical engineering would be more cost efficient AND cheaper.

Straight clones of powerful and famous mages would draw too much attention, but mixing the genetic codes of various high-ranked mages together would produce relatively unique individuals who are bound by the law of averages to be have strong talent.

This either eliminates or greatly reduces all of the problems precise cloning of Aces would run into, and entirely avoids any of the problems faced with trying to legally introduce Cyborgs into the TSAB.