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Old 2013-03-18, 00:27   Link #12900
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by zigantz22 View Post
You're intentionally avoiding addressing the accuracy of my response in relation to your initial post. You asked for a defined example of a contributing factor in her feelings for Zenkichi, and I offered one. The physical attraction clearly factored into Medaka's decision to confess to him, as she specifically mentioned, which thus infers that the same applies for her relationship as a whole. That's what the majority of our argument has been focused on, and you appear to be blatantly altering your version of our conversation solely due to the legitimacy of my answer that you're seemingly incapable of recognizing. It's simple, really. The rest of your argument is beside the point.
Let me repeat again the requirements for a 'coherent' explanation of Medaka's feelings for Zenkichi: first, the factor in question needs to be demonstrated in the manga yes, but you must also explain why Medaka's character should care about it (i.e. why it's important to Medaka's character arc). The alleged 'physical attraction' you've mentioned is merely a secondary by-product of the original emotion I explained to you, Medaka's gratitude for Zenkichi's devotion. Unless you can demonstrate that physical attraction to Zenkichi would be significant to Medaka's character for some other reason, it doesn't constitute a contradiction to my claim that Medaka's 'love' for Zenkichi is defined by his devotion to her.

Quote:
In regards to the new question you've raised, despite it's obvious divergence from your initial point, I've mentioned the clear lack of depth in their relationship numerous times, and the necessity for maturity. I understand that she's emotionally dependent on him, but I don't view it as an overwhelmingly detrimental force to be reckoned with that has clouded all of their interactions, nor has it appeared that she only admires him due to his presence in her life since before the 140th chapter. She doesn't really use that as the crutch she once did. Regardless, you only every asked for a singular element of her emotions that played a part in her outwardly physical affection towards Zen that was disconnected from her dependency. That, of course, is what I gave you.
You have been the one going on a diversion. What is the original context of our discussion? Your contention that there was ever some substance to Medaka's romantic attraction to Zenkichi beyond her emotional dependence on him. Now you are saying there is zero substance/depth to their current relationship. Doesn't that simply make my point? If you strip away the sole factor which ever added any remote weight to Medaka's relationship (her appreciation for Zenkichi's devotion to her), then you are left with nothing to justify her continued romantic interest in him. I'll ask again, are you suggesting that the reason Medaka and Zenkichi should be expected to get back together after they complete their maturation away from each other, is because she is physically attracted to him? If no, then you have no in-story justification for your expectation that Nishio will not actually break this relationship, only your preconceived assumptions and prejudices, the very things Nishio has made a habit of destroying.

Do you now not see what an ass you have been making of yourself? "Boohoo, I can't handle the suggestion that Medaka and Zenkichi won't end up together. I'm going to throw up an argument based on my instinctual disagreement with such a theory, despite having zero logical backing for my objection. All I have to offer are subjective 'observations' and a groundless confidence that Nishio won't upset my expectations." What a joke, try actually thinking next time before getting on your self-righteous soapbox.

Quote:
Kumagawa wasn't trolling. His words weren't bracketed and he was actually sincere. He blatantly declared that his ultimate victory had finally come. That was the fundamental principle behind Kumagawa's narrative importance and his arc altogether. Those are the indications I refer to, and they're far more substantive and obvious than your reasoning for diminishing Medaka's admittedly flawed love into an emotion that will easily be destroyed due to Zenkichi's sudden absence. I wasn't the one that idiotically claimed that Kumagawa's all-important victory was finally resolved with such an unspectacular and extremely predictable event. Kumagawa and Nisio were. Hence my disappointment. I greatly prefer that over his ultimate victory ludicrously referring to Medaka's reciprocated feelings though, so I can't be too negative on the development.
Of course Kumagawa wasn't trolling. Medaka's return represents a genuine victory for him both because it was something he bet on and something he desired. Do you think he's going to be seriously satisfied now however with just that single, insubstantial victory? Is there any interpretation you can apply where this one victory significantly changes Kumagawa's character? Because y'know, that's the actual point of character development, isn't it? Not just to have a 'symbolic' moment of a character changing somehow, but to actually show that change.

Kumagawa's character will not change until he actually achieves his ultimate victory. Until his character finishes changing, Kumagawa will not have finished his story. Your (again) naive and superficial interpretations of what Nishio's supposed intentions are is the only basis you have for calling Kumagawa's story over. When in fact, any cursory analytical overview of Kumagawa's character development would clearly tell you that his story is not finished. This is something even you have already understood instinctively. What I am telling you is that Nishio's adherence to proper literary writing is what is going to win out, not your preconceptions of what Nishio supposedly 'meant' in the story.
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