[Bladezer]

Originally Posted by Marina2

Long post as usual, Bladezer

It's really hard to quote parts your post that I want to respond.

Sorry, I am trying to cut back

Originally Posted by Marina2

I think a littile detail like that can be different. The point is: most part of it is accurate to the manga (ability,effect, playstyle, characters etc.) so I think Nodaka and Saki part is canon.

Merely saying don't necessarily follow everything the preview showed.

Originally Posted by Marina2

How did you know Shizu can't? You do noticed that Shizu ability has some conditions to activate right? I think it more like she didn't activate it in those rounds.

What I mean is, When Himeko has a key Ryuuka is unable to see her ending hand, meaning Shizu can't block them both at the same time.

Originally Posted by Marina2

I was saying that each pair of number may have different effect and/or one of them can improve Shizu skill.

Okay, understandable, but doesn't really match with how Koromo said Shizu stopped her haitei rouyoe, in the second match they had.

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

On a more serious subject, what the hell does mountain climbing have to do with IB? Or anything? Could it be Shizu's power is just the ability to block plays once she's gotten the hang of everyone's styles? Harue, please provide a full explanation before everything is said and done. Also, I'm very glad she didn't just figured out everything about Awai instantly, that'd have been so anticlimatic.

And this is why seeing Achiga's training would really have helped us get a grasp on Shizu's play style and ability. I think Koromo will be the one to give us the explanation of Shizu's ability, or Hiroko may notice the oddities with Shizu and come up with a good explanation, or we could have Yuu and Kuro be the ones explaining it saying how Shizu has blocked them in the past.

Originally Posted by Requiem-x

Also, I think it's great Awai doesn't even register Shizu, definetly a much better way to show Achiga as the underdogs than having their player crying in despair Just you wait, supernova, the name Takakamo Shizuno will be engrave in your mind soon enough. I hope

That's actually a good way to set them up as the underdog for the finals. After all Achiga has no players with recognized fetes like Kiyosumi does.

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Pretty sure that you have been mixing up Eastern order and Western order here. Most importantly, Choe Myeonghwa is half-Korean and Hao Huiyu is of Chinese descent.

To say it softly, I would have figured you would know name orders by now.

Except Choe is a recognised player in the European league, which suggests she grew up in France, meaning she'd have the more European like name.

Also the names on most English sites with info Saki have already flipped the names to western system of: Forename.Surname.

Originally Posted by teja208

Isn't Satoha being a "great normal player" also made her a potantial candidate for "monster slayer" title? I'm not sure I fully understand what you are implying, but it seems you have a different definition for both terms. As for me, I viewed the term "great normal player" as general quality of a "monster slayer" since someone here pointed out that it is unwise to go monster slaying unless you happen to be a monster yourself which I don't think is entirely correct. I personally believe that monster slaying should be encouraged amongst skilled normal players with lots of gut. It maybe my personal bias, but I admit a little part of me want to see them succeed the impossible or at least not giving up till the very end.

I was supposed to put quotation marks next to monster slayers... this would relate to players who think they have the right skill to fight evenly with a monster.
I was also referring to those with abilities and play styles that are built to hurt monster players, this refers to players like Sae
Also it may seem crazy but Satoha could have an ability of her own, but I doubt what with how she's dealing with Yuuki, who pretty much is guaranteed to have the flow of the game on her side during the east round.

Originally Posted by teja208

I guess my standard prerequisite for the monster slayer is too high. I stand correct, maybe I should've dropped the "wannabe" part and just labeled Satoha and Kyouko plain "monster slayer" instead since they both probabily accomplished quite a few monster slayings to made it this far into the tournament. However, if one want the title "Monster Slayer King" they have to at least conqour one of the Miyanaga sisters. Yeah, one of them should be enough to earn that title.

Actually from reading this, I just remembered that we possibly missed a great regular player, who could possibly take on monster, I mean Hiroe of course, though her traps probably wouldn't work on Teru. Also I don't see anyone claiming the title of 'Monster Slayer King' or Queen. Think about it for a second the only other person to give a Miyanaga sister was Touka in her cold state.

Originally Posted by atua

She probably did use Hisa's hell wait in her 3rd hand. (Saki Ch 61, pg 12) She passed up a 3 sided (4, 7, 8 sou) wait for the 3 pin pair wait, when she drew the 6 pin for tenpai. The rest of the discards weren't shown, so it's not 100% that it was a hell wait, but Hisa notable reaction to both the discard and the win, and Maho's own thought bubble ("there's something behind this dora!") strongly implies it.

The fact that Maho can use abilities of people who're nearby, and not just her opponents, opens up a lot of possibilities if she ever gets better at mahjong... Imagine her channeling Kokaji-pro for a hand, if her copy ability "range" gets beyond line-of-sight/room, to say people on the same floor/building/conference centre, LOL. Maybe Kainou-pro has the professional level version of this skill?

Reread the chapter, it seems Maho did use Hisa's ability, and the hell wait was a pair wait.
I think the condition for Maho to use someone's ability is to actually see them in action. After all there are 4 ability users in Kiyosumi (Hisa, Mako, Yuuki and Saki) Maho never used Mako's, because if you remember back Maho only got to the playing hall when Hisa was playing. Plus with Maho we found a rarity, a undeveloped ability user, meaning that Maho literally only discovered hers when she staring playing in middle school.

Originally Posted by Von Himmel

Though what will happen is probably that Shizu will counter each players ability late game and then take a win by countering Shindouji It might not seems like a massacre if she's only going to win a couple of hand, but it's highly possible that her spotlight would be when she counters all of her opponents ability.

Her calm demeanor is actually pretty scary too in the scene betwen her and Ako.

Himeko has a key for the round before the last. Meaning the last 2 hands would be a massacre by Shizu.
Well in the scene between her and Ako, its still possible for her to go through.

Originally Posted by cedec0

Actually, considering how close the scores are and the fact that the average points won per hand so far is 10000+, If shizuno wins "a couple of hands" (while continuing to take no damage), it will be a massacre.

Pretty much, Shizu has been doing a good job of dodging, unlike in the quarter finals where she accidentally played into a hand.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

The reason Shizu has been able to avoid dealing into Awai is because Harue specifically told her "only play safe tiles after Awai kans". Harue told Shizu the precise weakness of/way to defend against Awai's ability, that's why she hasn't gotten hit. It has nothing to do with her ability. Again, because Awai's ability predisposes her towards Rons, there is a simple explanation for why Shizu hasn't taken any damage.

Still don't forget in the break Hiroko told Ryuuka to play safe after Awai called kan and Ryuuka still got hit.

Originally Posted by Marina2

Shizu seems to read other people hand very well. She may know when will Awai ron someone but she still need to read Awai's hand to avoid it.

She also didn't deal into any Ryuuka and Himeko hand. Ryuuka and Himeko have no reason to not try to ron Shizu during the game - Don't forget that.

And this is where Shizu should be given the note of not having a bad defensive play, also Himeko doesn't have to worry about busting her, Shizu has enough points where she would survive to end of the game.

Originally Posted by Serperior

Though, I kinda like the theory of Shizu having an AoE effect of not having any tsumos at all. It's a spectacular ability since it lowers your opponent's score, even by a little. It's like a debuff and (on certain occasions) attacking move since a closed tsumo is a yaku by itself.

Anyways, I stopped caring about who'll be going into the finals with Shiraitodai now. I just don't want Shizu to stop Shindouji's counted yakuman since it will be too tragic.

Shindouji is basically in last place for all 5 matches and if you guys remember, Shindouji is a school that consistently do badly in the finals. I think it's been hinted that ever since they changed their lineup from weakest to strongest, the semi-finals is the highest round that they have ever been in. So it would be too tragic for Shizu to break Himeko's key.

See Himeko's expression here? Too tragic. She shouldn't be the next Kana since she's a pseudo-monster herself!

Spoiler:

Shizu having an area of effect of stopping Tsumo wins does make an for interesting idea.

Himeko won't be the next Kana, Himeko will probably finish the match with a okay score.
I say that look is more because of the pressure that Awai has built up around the table with her ability.

Originally Posted by eavein18

Shizu played into someone on the previous game, so I don't think she can read someone's hand.

It is possible to read a hand and still play into by accident. Also try not forget they stay silent. Also Ryuuka could've played into that hand.

Originally Posted by eavein18

That and when Awai ron Himeko, Shizu look at Awai's hand and think something along the line of "Had I play that tile I would be ron-ed" which seriously implies that she didn't know Awai's hand. (So Shizu having the ability to read someones hand theory is OUT!)

In double riichi mode, Awaii can't tsumo, her ability is double riichi -> kan -> ron -> kan ura dora 4.

Just so you know, reading an opponents hand in Saki is pretty much something everyone can do, meaning Shizu could still have read Awai's hand.

Originally Posted by eavein18

Since Ryuuka and Himeko doesn't have a Harue™ they insist of completing their hand after Awai kan (thus getting ronned) while Shizu as per Harue™ 's advice, play 100% safe tile.

Ryuuka and Himeko doesn't have reason not to ron Shizu, but they do have reason to ron Awai, that and I believe Awaii is almost 100% attack, 0% def (which means that Shizu have better defense then her)

Ryuuka also has Hiroko's warning about Awai's ability and she still played into, so there goes the 1st one out the window.
Also do you think that if Shizu relaxed for a second Ryuuka or Himeko wouldn't jump on her. Ryuuka saw Shizu's comeback victory in the quarter-finals dropping Shizu to a place where she can't cause an upset is somewhere Ryuuka would want to send her.

Originally Posted by eavein18

True she does have the ability to negate other's, but that seriously doesn't make her a monster, on that table she is totally ignored T.T

Awai is totally into Himeko. Himeko is "I'll prove that our combo is the strongest!". Ryuuka is trying hard to not let her lover down. Shizu is sitting there watching people ron-ing each other.

Hell even after Awai getting ron by Shizu, she only stay worried about Shizu for 1 turn only, and she's like "Hm? My ability is fine, so that's just me slipping a bit" and goes back obsessing over Himeko

It's like a supposedly 4 person battle royale in the Colosseum , but it turns out that the other 3 fighter is too absorbed into each other that Shizu just sit in the corner and watch as the battle unfold.

Do you honestly think Shizu is being ignored? For one it should be obvious Ryuuka is not ignoring her, one wrong move and Ryuuka will send her into lower points, as said she has seen Shizu pull herself out of a point of possible no return. Also if Ryuuka makes a wrong move Shizu will attack and drop her out of 2nd. And Himeko will probably take any chance at a winning tile to get a win.

Originally Posted by eavein18

1) I'm not a hater, and I don't mind Shizu-fans being happy that Shizu got *awesome* power, but her being a monster? Nu uh, she's far from that title dearie.

2) When Achiga win ("when" not "if" because of plot armor), it is 30% because of Shizu's power, and 70% her "I'm not important enough to get attention from the other 3 monsters so they go attack between them self and left me and my points alone"

Okay Shizu ability is only really dangerous to monster players, meaning Shizu is a monster to monster players, which is what were saying. And again do you really think Ryuuka is ignoring her.
Also the point spread in the captains match is to close, so anyone will take the chance to create a big gap will take it.

Originally Posted by Marina2

Even with [I'm not important enough to get attention from the other 3 monsters so they go attack between them self and left me and my points alone"] she can still getting ron , and the fact that she only dealed into someone hand only one time for entire game means she's good at reading other player hand. Well, unless you are saying that Shizu is being forgotten to the point that other 3 players will forget to ron her when she discards the tile they want......

With that, if Shizu can protect her point, wait other monsters to kill each other and manage to find a chance to counter attack once and win as 2nd - It means she wins because her good defensive skill and sneaky tactic. Not because no one care about her.

I doubt we'd have Ryuuka forgetting to ron Shizu, after what Shizu pulled of in their last match, meaning if Ryuuka sees a chance to send Shizu crash and burning she will take it

Originally Posted by Serperior

"Flow" in mahjong is real, btw. That's what I take of it anyways. I have no idea, and like I said, it's not really used in online mahjong. I'm guessing in real life, it helps the tiles to be more shuffled. An automatic mahjong table is expensive so when playing mahjong in real life, you shuffle it manually.

Flow is in online Mahjong, I used it to bust someone, than in the next match I played into a 13 orphans.

Originally Posted by fukarming

As sad as it may sound, I think Shindouji's counted Yakuman had to be broken, if Achiga is going to the final. So far, the series is consistent that whoever to go thru "deserve" to go through. Shizu ron from the no name school on the previous round; Saki breaking Kasumi and Toyone; Kyouko breaks Kasumi...etc. In practice Shizu don't need to break anything (Awai keeps on ronning against Ryuka and Himeko, Himeko counted Yakuman direct hit on Awai, that will bring the points of Himeko down to around Shizu, Shizu wins a small hand and able to advance). But that will just give Achiga hater even more firepower to hate Achiga.

This actually why I'm glad Shizu won once in the first half, because it would have the Achiga haters saying that Shizu has no skill at being able to win.

Originally Posted by cedec0

Everything in the series points to Shizu being a monster:

1) She is the main character and focus of Achiga-hen (look at image above). How many animes/mangas have you seen where everyone EXCEPT the main character is awesome?

2) Koromo warnings about Shizuno. Kuromo knows how strong Saki is better than anyone, would she really bother mentioning Shizu unless she was something trully special?

3) Coach Harue decision to place Shizu last in the team order and her complete confidence in Shizu despite her opponents ridiculous powers.

...


If Shizu isn't a monster that can give Saki a run for her money, then what was the point of Achiga-hen? Sixteen episodes and twenty manga chapters to introduce an opponent Saki wipes the floor with in finals? Why base an entire side-arc around a player who turns out to lame and pathetic? This makes absolutely no sense.

What you said does make actually make a lot of sense. Why waste the side-story on 5 characters with specific abilities and play styles, and then not pit them against the 5 main characters in original story, when that has been what the side story, as well as the main series has foreshadowed.

Originally Posted by cedec0

Achita is the only school that I think has a guarranteed ticket to the finals at this point. Shiraitodai losing is very realistic for two reasons:


1) It would be a very interesting plot twist which I is why I can see it happening (the Saki VS Teru will happen in the individuals anyway)
2) All of Shiraitodai's players have had their abilities throughly explored and then defeated:

A) Teru's rampage was stopped
B) Sumire's "Piercing Arrows" were defeated
C) Shibuya Takami's ability wasn't interesting enough to be worth seing again
D) Matano Seiko was completely dominated
E) Oohoshi Awai has already had her ability defeated by all three of her opponents.

So I'd say the odds of Shiraitodai making the finals are less than 50% at this point.

Well here's something I thought I'd never do, have to defend Shiraitodai.
Interesting as it is, Shiraitodai have been built up as the team that would finally make Kiyosumi have to go all out, meaning no busting a team in the lieutenants round, Yuuki cannot hold back against Teru, doing so will put Kiyosumi to far behind in the finals, Nodoka and Saki must play in the finals, if they don't Kiyosumi will most likely lose, even badly. Yes Yuuki, Mako, and Hisa are good players, but Takami can possibly Yakuman spam, and Teru can actually get Takami the point wall she needs to help her built her final hand.

Teru didn't use her full power in the semi-finals. She's going to use what she couldn't in the semi-finals in the finals.
Sumire can play well without her ability, also I think Sumire will find out about her tell, also I think she may know how to actually hit speedy hands.
Takami still has the chance for a yakuman spam, meaning a real challenge for both Hisa and Ako having to overcome.
Seiko ...No comment
Awai has not had her ability defeated, Himeko's key stops her 5 shaten, Ryuuka has limited foresight uses, and iit seems Shizu needs to take a while before her ability starts to take effect. Also Awai's kan ability is pretty much built to challenge Saki for the dead wall.
Also Awai having her ability related to kan, really makes her seem like a replacement for Saki to Teru.

Also something interesting I noticed with Shizu's ability:
First remember Shizu stopped playing Mahjong in middle school
Second it seems that abilities seem to really come through and be noticed by people in Middle school
Third Shizu started playing again in high school, where only 2 ability users are in her club
Fourth with her ability being to block over ability users wins, she wouldn't really notice it at first, and with Yuu and Kuro having magnet abilities, which she wouldn't really be able to stop
In conclusion, what I'm saying Shizu's ability is sporadic because it didn't develop properly like everyone else's did, meaning Harue literally would have to jump start it the nationals, because it seems Nara only has 2 ability users.
So what I'm saying Shizu is only now getting proper development for her ability, unlike say Yuuki, who knew about hers since middles school, which pretty much allowed for Hisa to help Yuuki get the power ups she needed.

On another note I hope Ritz has a fast recovery. I know what would hold us over until next month for the Achiga-hen chapter, how about episode 15 of the anime, hint, hint animation studio.
Something I really am looking forward to in the anime, is how they will animate Ryuuka's foresight of to see the path to her winning hand, they did a great job with how they showed Toki looking forward 2 turns, them 3, and I feel the music really fitted, and how they will show Himeko activating her key.