[overloard]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

You are forgetting that Vegans have been brainwashed at the notion they are the superior race and Earthers are subhumans. That is from the mouths of the arrogant pricks of Vegan.

Though it's true that some of the vagans do adopt such beliefs, I don't remember anything in the show suggesting that this is dominant mindset for the entirety of population. Vagans surely angry and resentful towards Earthers, but saying that they view them as inferior creatures and fully support extermination is pushing it a bit too far. My impression is that Vagan ideology mostly based on concept of reaching their paradise without specifically focusing on the hatred and exacting vengeance on Earthers, it's just something some of the most fanatical and retarded pick up independently, and such people can't be used as examples who represent whole population.

A normal Vegan would have tons of insecurity issues as shown with Deen. Deen believed the people of Earth are laughing at their poor state all this time.

WTF Earthers and colonists around them don't know you even exist much less the condition of your colonies. (Which Ezelcant admitted to be sabotaging for his Social Darwinist dream)

Breeding jealousy, envy and a sense of entitlement Vegan society produced soldiers that wont give mercy to either Earther military and civilian alike.

Killing civilians in their point of view would be evicting squatters from their property.

While Deen's perception of the Federation and its people is twisted and nonsensical, at the end of the day he never shown any intent to punish them or make them suffer like Lu. All he ever did was talking about how he believes in Ezelcant's Eden and his promise to Lu to take her there. Since Deen seems to be absolutely generic vagan civilian, he is unlikely to hold any divergent from the rest of population beliefs, so I assume majority of them would think more or less like him. Instead of seething with hatred and malice towards damned Earthers vagans most likely passively brooding over injustice done to them, but in the end don't care much as long as they can have their Eden.

Plus you also got to understand the Determination factor.

As Fram pointed out a lot of them has been sacrificed to stop now. She didn't mention they've done so much atrocities to stop now because if they lose from their perspective the Earthers would do to them what they've been doing for the past 70 years. Surrender is not an option at this critical stage.

Sorry, not sure I understand what are you saying here. Do you mean that Vagans can't stop fighting because of the fear of retribution from the Federation? How did you reached that conclusion from Fram's words? She is not saying that they killed so much people that federation will never forgive them, sacrifices and lost lifes she refers to are vagans. For me it looks like typical anime reasoning "We've gone too far and gave up too much to stop now, so we must see it through to the end no matter what".

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Oh yeah, all we can do is speculate, but from what we've been shown sofar, no Vagan has been shown to doubt Ezelcant's ways, thats why i mean it's safe to assume that the Vagans (Civilians or not) support Ezelcant's cause.

We can't assume they arent told, Seeing how Ezelcant talks to them with his Giant hologram from what we've seen, hopefully the last 2 episodes will give us some insight into the civilian Vagan population instead of leaving them as blank background characters.

i find it hard to draw a conclusion when it comes to the Vagan civilians in general because we've been shown so little of them, and what we've been shown isnt pointing towards them being good, minus Deen and Lu.

Such thing as Vagan civilians opposing Ezelcant probably does not exist, but i don't think it's wise blame them for that. It's not like they bury their heads in the sand in the face of overwhelming evidences of Ezelcant's atrocities and keep following him because of the petty hatred towards Earthers and desire for revenge. There is no way for them to form objective opinion on their leaders and the war they waging, since the only source of information for them is heavily biased propaganda speeches. Don't know about you, but given the conditions vagans live in I would be willing to cut them some slack in this regard.